Back to Starter!!!!!

[Kim K Kaiser]

big sigh!!!  well, i found the bleeders weren't  quite tight enough, so the last couple of runs through town i have and no brake leaks,  brakes feel ok, may have been i was so used to bad ones, didnt know what a good push was,, ANYWAY,, 

the starter....

since i replaced the starter back in november, i had the ignition switch go out,(wiring fried)  so for most of the last month, i have used the hot wire method.  seemed to do ok, just cant do it and go anywhere.  

i did notice when i used a generic 3 prong starter from parts store, i left it hooked up over night.  not on, and not in the accessory position,  the next day, the battery was dead.  charged and it started right up

So i just figured, until I get the replacement that fit with the 4 prongs, i would just hot wire, and undo the black post at night or when not in use.

so yesterday, i got all the parts in and hooked up the starter, and bammm,, fired right up,  took my rides, tested brakes,,,etc... came home parked it for an hour or two,, went back to go for another short ride, and i got that dreaded,, hard to turn over sound.  but it would turn over on about the third slow clunk and start.,, went for my ride, came back, parked and shut down for the night,, un did the black at battery.  

this morning, after checking for brake leaks, hooked it up, and it started right up like one would expect.  went for about a 20minute ride.,, came home,, went in side for about 20 minutes, came back out, and got that slow slow turn over.. it would nt start so i turned it off,, checked the battery, had appropriate cold charge volts,  waited about 45 more minutes. went out, tried it again,  tightened down the black,, got two slow turns and then it started,,took it for a ride,,, came back, test battery with engine on, and was well up in the 14's so from what i have read, it was doing what it was supposed to,

now I dont have ANY idea what to do now,  I'm fearful of turning off somewhere as it may not start.  but, i have found that after a long time, hours or so, and the battery undone, i can go out and it will do fine.  

i have been using gunk remover, and shooting water under engine cleaning the underside and engine over the last two weeks when i did nt have a working something to do on the car.  maybe some old wiring is bad? i just dont know,,could it be a fuse?  grounds are all there and tight, i mean if the starter is a non working part once the car is started, what else could cause this sort of hot start issue,, battery???  it works good cold, but not when its been on an running and then to follow up with a start.

I know yall are getting sick of my questions, but i have no were else to turn, you tube only covers so much and so much is on modern stuff...

[Jason Edge]

Ok...for 6th, 7th.. maybe 8th time, what is the condition of the ground strap from frame to engine at starter? Maybe not your problem ... I'm guessing some shorting issues somewhere with your car ... but still not sure I have gotten a clear answer on the main frame to starter ground strap condition. 

[Kim K Kaiser]

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[Kim K Kaiser]

Below is the main strap as best i can get a picture.  You may can seeI where i cleaned and sanded off the section were it attaches..  it lokks in good shape to me,  no fraying or cut sections still lliable. 

It very odd,  i can ket it sit, go out start, no problem.  Come back, turn car off,  count to ten, and it wont start. It juzt chugs over.  I dnt grind it.  Just let it turn tgree times,  

[Jason Edge]

Completed re placing negatuve cable, ran 8 gauge wire from the offshhot wire from the battery cable, attached to were the other strap wire was previuosly attached like in Jasons picture of coonnectiions.  Car started fine.
--> Was car cold and had not been previously running?
--> Did it turn strong or drag a bit?

Tikk for about ten mike run.   Pulled in, turned off. Trued to start.... same as prior.  Turns over but wont start.  I give it about three turn overs and leave it.   
--> When you turned it over 3 times how did it turn over? Fast, or slow and dragging. Did it seem to drag the battery down.
--> Did you test the battery for voltage drop?
---> Why not turn it over 4 or more times?
---> Are you sure you are not flooding the carb by not over pumping it?
---> Is there gas in the gas filter (if you have a glass one and can see the gas)


 Instead of undoing negatuve cable, i am going to see iff battery dies, as it has in past. 
--> see 2nd bullet above. Getting a battery reading is going to be the most basic thing you want to do before you start undoing cables and wiring.

Also,
 --> when will car crank back up? That is if you let is sit and cool off will it crank later on? If so how long?
--> Do you have to jump or charge the battery before it will crank up again?
And finally, it helps if you completely describe the situation. I think a lot of repeated questions and the firehose of assumptions coming from everyone (including myself) would be drastically shortened and you could cut to the chase of the problem if everything is more thoroughly described up front. That is walk us through with clear and complete description situation when the car cranks like it should;  when it does not crank; and when it cranks again.

[Kim K Kaiser]

1,  car started strong as it had been off for several hours

2,  it just does nt seem to want to turn over more than 3 to four times.  Maybe 5, so i dnt push it, feels like its draing battery. Its a slow turn over. The pumping was a time or two thing,  it hasnt see med to help but one time so i didnt do it any more. Just a strait type start.

Going to try to get to a parts place where they hv the battery testers today, 

If i drive the car,  park it,  i can get it ba k going after 20 to thirty minutes. Do not hv to charge or jump.

I think  thats it,, again, going to try to get to battery test today to answer those specific questions

[Kim K Kaiser]

i had the timing set,, 

i am replacing negative batter today,  

i dont remember anteing about carb gaskets, i have done nothing at the carb.

no gas smell,,

This morning here was the routine.

last nicht, i undid the negative.  put it on today, hit the pedal twice, and it started right up, rode around about 30 minutes, parked, took cable off, went for about 45 minute walk,  came back, put cable back on, car started up.

rode car back to house, turned it off left black attached,  .. put dog in side, walked back out, came back to see if it would start,, turned over about 3 times before i shut it down.  did not start, and would not have started.

i asked above and will ask again,  can standard 4 or similar coated cable be used in place the open straps for ground wires.]]

thanks again

[24ro8f5mbs2jc]

The bigger the better. If it fits then go for it. But never smaller then what Jason is stating above.

[Kim K Kaiser]

Ok.  Will try tomoro.  Been fighting this tbing all day.

[3ft7bqmb7dryo]

The ground strap to the starter looks correct. After you changed the negative battery cable, did the starter spin faster, even after the engine was warmed up?  I would also recommend changing the positive battery cable too.

You can go with a shielded ground wire, as long as it is the same gauge or upgrade to a bigger wire.  

[Kim K Kaiser]

Its hard to say, Russ,  possibly,.

I changed the positive when starter replaced last month.  I posted the car would not start 30 minutes,ago after about a 5 mile ride.  I pulked in front of my hpuse, turned it off,  then tried to start it.  Got that slow, heavy turn.  Just now, went out,  fored up immediately,   

[Kim K Kaiser]

Yes, new switch is in

[Jason Edge]

Mark, The monkey wrench in his situation for me is that the car cranks perfect when cold then 10 minutes later, turns off then will not crank. It is easy enough to bypass battery and cables to ground and starter to eliminate wires and battery, but that doesn't necessarily address the 10 minute later cranking issue and instead points to something else, maybe something like the dark blue ignition to starter wire laying across the exhaust manifold and making contact as the insulation melts and contacts, or somewhere else across the engine or anywhere a frayed wire is making negligible contact and only heats up after ignition circuit is on. I believe he has Pertronics and has a switched ignition wire feed to the coil that is making contact somewhere. 
For me, the fact it does not crank after 10 minutes makes me think something is causing wiring to heat up and potentially short somewhere in the circuit. I have also heard of solenoids and starters themselves being subject to heat failure from the engine if there are any internal wiring issues... but I believe he had replaced all of these. My first inclination from the clues I have read would be to simply trace all the wires, make sure all are tight (especially grounds),  no hot wires are shorted, melting or touching something like an exhaust manifold and spend the 15 bucks on a new solenoid switch if not already done so.