big sigh!!!  well, i found the bleeders weren't  quite tight enough, so the last couple of runs through town i have and no brake leaks,  brakes feel ok, may have been i was so used to bad ones, didnt know what a good push was,, ANYWAY,, 

the starter....

since i replaced the starter back in november, i had the ignition switch go out,(wiring fried)  so for most of the last month, i have used the hot wire method.  seemed to do ok, just cant do it and go anywhere.  

i did notice when i used a generic 3 prong starter from parts store, i left it hooked up over night.  not on, and not in the accessory position,  the next day, the battery was dead.  charged and it started right up

So i just figured, until I get the replacement that fit with the 4 prongs, i would just hot wire, and undo the black post at night or when not in use.

so yesterday, i got all the parts in and hooked up the starter, and bammm,, fired right up,  took my rides, tested brakes,,,etc... came home parked it for an hour or two,, went back to go for another short ride, and i got that dreaded,, hard to turn over sound.  but it would turn over on about the third slow clunk and start.,, went for my ride, came back, parked and shut down for the night,, un did the black at battery.  

this morning, after checking for brake leaks, hooked it up, and it started right up like one would expect.  went for about a 20minute ride.,, came home,, went in side for about 20 minutes, came back out, and got that slow slow turn over.. it would nt start so i turned it off,, checked the battery, had appropriate cold charge volts,  waited about 45 more minutes. went out, tried it again,  tightened down the black,, got two slow turns and then it started,,took it for a ride,,, came back, test battery with engine on, and was well up in the 14's so from what i have read, it was doing what it was supposed to,

now I dont have ANY idea what to do now,  I'm fearful of turning off somewhere as it may not start.  but, i have found that after a long time, hours or so, and the battery undone, i can go out and it will do fine.  

i have been using gunk remover, and shooting water under engine cleaning the underside and engine over the last two weeks when i did nt have a working something to do on the car.  maybe some old wiring is bad? i just dont know,,could it be a fuse?  grounds are all there and tight, i mean if the starter is a non working part once the car is started, what else could cause this sort of hot start issue,, battery???  it works good cold, but not when its been on an running and then to follow up with a start.

I know yall are getting sick of my questions, but i have no were else to turn, you tube only covers so much and so much is on modern stuff...

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The solendoid came with the new starter.  

Have you traced ALL ignition wires to starter, ignition switch, and to ignition coil to make sure nothing is shorting, touching the exhaust manifold, etc.?

i will check on that tomorrow,, i used the wires that were already existing when i changed out the starter, except for the new positive batter cable.  i will check the lines for touching against manifold, or each other or other surfaces.. I have not changed out ANY wires as they relate to these big important parts. 

As for tonight, i went out for a couple hours, came home, all connections hooked up,  had to move car from street to back drive... car started immediately, like power start, bam,, i moved car, (it did not have time to heat up)   i turned off car,, then turned on,   it fired up immediately,, dont know if this info helps, but thought i would throw that out there for data input

If testing in this manner I would test as you indicated both cold and hot after running several minutes. If it continues to do the same thing with direct ground and 12 volts to starter that should completely eliminate the battery and wiring. If on the other hand it cranks hot with the bypass test then battery or battery cables should be looked at. I am just not seeing the battery being bad (or battery cables) if it cranks great cold. My experience with issues like this has been something to do with heat and shorting on the ignition circuit. On my 68 Camaro where I had headers right next to the starter, heat soak (dragging starters due to heat built up causing resistance) was an issue but have never observed that to be an issue with 63/64 Cadillacs with stock manifold. Now... wires across the manifold, yes, that can be an issue.  The bottom line is it also doesn't hurt to take flash light and simply check the wiring for shorts. :-)  

I forgot about my 85 IROC-Z. I had major heat soak issues with the starter when I installed headers and dual exhaust on that car.  I had to install a heat shield, else the car would barely crank after those headers and the starter heated up. I really doubt he has a heat soak problem, but sticking a baffle up there would not be too hard but my money is on issues on the ignition circuit between starter, ignition switch and ignition coil. Probably dead wrong! LOL

thanks Mark,,  i saw that machine on eric the car guy you tubes, he uses one of those things to measure the CCA's,,  will also look at that and battery cable test to morrow as well.

what are you referring to by 'emergency cable"  that offshoot wire that goes to the radiator support??

Well it was the cable tgat was replaced,  si.that is done

yes Tony,  I did have the ignition switch completely burnt out and burn the back of the switch,  I posted some pictures on  prior posting somewhere showing the burn from the wire,

To all,, I'm up to do what you guys suggest,,  to date, again,, here is what i observe.

cold start, fires up,, either in the morning or after a period of dead time,, 30-45 minutes of off engine time up to hours.

if car runs for a trip downtown, appx 4 miles and stops and starts, about 15 minutes of running time and car temp gets to temp,  when i turn off the car and immediately try to start, it WILL NOT START,, it very slowly turns over, like dead battery slow, clump clump clump.. 

wait 20 30 min,  it will start,

thats the symptoms.........

Hah!  Your asking me?   Im the one looking for answers,  remember.  

Hi Tony,, no, my gauges all seem to be at or a shade under the 1/4 mark on the temp gauge,, i dont smell any antifreeze or anything,, i ma leaking a touch of oil from the valve cover on the driver side and that smells a bit when it hits the manifold, (going to re do the gasket there this week) but other than that, the car seems to run ver nice,, it is very quiet after getting all those manifold gaskets fixed,, i mean really quiet,,

should i try to wrap the wires the go to the solenoid, (the smaller wires, not the big wire from the battery) with electrical tape, if its potentially heat?  would that protect the wires from heat or is electrical tape used for another reason,,I'm going to take the car to the parts store today, see if they can test the battery as Mark suggested as well with that battery tool.  

Inspect the wires that go to the starter. They can become heat damaged, get brittle and the insulation cracks allowing corrosion to set in.

t sounds like a current flow problem.  Either a poor performing battery, bad battery cables or the starter.

You have tried multiple starters, so get  good cables on there and test the battery.

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