Well, got it all together,, Jason, i was looking in the wrong chapter in the manual on the starter,, got that figured out.  everything hooked back up

Got it put back together, started up, and oil light turned off.. putting a hole in the gasket that the oil sump filter really helped out on that..

I only ran it for ab out 15 minutes. pulled out of my friends garage, and rode down the street,,

i noticed a knock or something tha wasnt there to start with,  I think its a leak at that driver side exhaust connection.  My reason for that is, when i pulled off the exhaust, the nut didnt come off, the hole screw came out of the block,, the nut was pretty much heat soldered on bolt,  So i dont think i was able to put the 33 pounds of torque on the connection as i was afraid of stripping out the threads on the block,,   so i got it as tight as i felt comfortable cranking down on it, but it didn't hit the 33 lbs.  

Can i get replacement screws at the part store for that??

What did i learn from all this,, hmmm,, really nice to have full car lift.  

lots to look at inside the engine, but since i didnt have to touch anything there, no problems.  

the guy at arizona parts in arizona, (the guy there was quite helpful)   told me to just soak the gasket until ready, i didn't know why, but did it for the second installation of the upper seal.. it went in very nicely with no friction until the last say 3/4 inch.  i found if i pushed the tail in, toward the shaft and pushed it would go on in.  No rubber came off the end as it did on the first installation so i assume it was flush on all edges and no problems.. 

i found out that to turn the crankshaft with plugs out,, put the big torque bar on the nut on the alternator, squeeze the belt, and turn,, crank shaft turnedmoved with no problem,, so I learned a new trick there...

i cant  say this was not easy, maybe due to my lack of experience, and fear of breaking something,, but, after about 2 weeks, i got it in.. the lift really made it easier,,

i havent noticed a leak yet, but it was a very short drive and warm up..will see tomorrow how it comes out.

It cost me three rear main seals.. first one i ruined, second one fit, and the third one was a back up if the second one went bad.  so thats about 120.   (40 a piece for best gaskets from Arizona vintage parts..

oil pan gaskets,, first one i had to remove because of my oil sump mistake and had to do again,, 22.0 a piece x 2   (44.00)

exhaust gaskets  i think the was about 20,0..   

brake cleaner, assembly grease, miscellaneous stuff about 50.00, so the out of pocket parts cost was probably 230 to 250.00.

 shop wanted 550 in labor,, i know if i used there labor rate, it was a 3000.00  labor repair,, but given the learning, the advice from everyone, i came out way better,, i will know for sure how it held tomorrow.  at least i know how to do it if i have to do it again,, God forbid...

again, thanks for all the help and patience...

Views: 832

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Crank case pressure will blow out the fill tube and dip stick tube. I seriously doubt that there is enough pressure to blow out the rear main seal.  Oil would be puking out the oil fill tube first.

As I posted earlier, the rear main cap needs to be sealed, as the back side of the cap is a source for an oil leak.  Just a very thin skim coat at the ends is all that is needed.

The seal is either being put in backwards, being damaged, or the joining halves are damaged from the wrong adhesive being used.  With the oil pan off, end play should be checked, as it was stated earlier about excessive end play.

Chris, you are being led on a wild goose chase with a lot of miss information.

thanks,,

im not going back in there myself..  weather has gone bad, and theres a point where just removing bolts and nuts, pulling stuff out and in and putting back together is no longer good enough, diagnostics and experience has to come in and i dont have that at this point so  I think i have met that threshold,   I dont have enough knowledge to diagnose what has gone wrong.  I know the seal is in correctly,  except of using contact cement, i followed the book discussion, so theres something there,some experienced eyes need to see, unfortunately, i cant convey that by pictures here.  so i have to take it in.. I do thank everyone who have helped.. if nothing else, i learned from just the discussions of how things work, and pick up other little tidbits of knowledge i may can use down the road.  all very valuable to me...

russ, 
I've never seen an oil cap blow off.  I've seen bad PCVs or high blow by push oil out of gaskets and seals over and over.  But not this fast.  End play is a dead end, unless there is a groove in the crank (which none of us here can know).  End play will damage the seal visibly on tear down if it's enough to cause a monster leak like what he has, and it won't magically heal when he's going slow.  Period.  

My actual opinion is that he needs a fresh crank and bearings, but you have to factor out all the bullshit first, like crankcase pressure, and also get an idea of whether it's even worthwhile to do a crank.   If there's smoke at the tail, or massive blow by, then you can say it's not worth the trouble and the rebuild is on the horizon, not worth the crank.    Nobody ever told him to tear down the engine top end, at least i didn't.   what does it cost to check the pressure by putting your hand over the cap?   zero dollars and five seconds of your life.    

I'm ASE certified and ten years in the trade (no longer), and let me tell you, first thing you do on a leak is take off the cap.  If it's puffing, you don't go fixing it, it's gonna comeback on you, so you tell the customer about the reasonable life of the new part.    

Also, his name is Kim, not Chris

and misinformation is one word.  miss information is an award they give to female librarians probably

Mark, I think we are all just trying to help. I've seen plenty of blow-by in my day, including on my 64 CDV before I rebuilt the heads and engine. Not enough to dump that much oil but enough to let  you know there are some worn parts inside.  Personally, I like to deal with facts, and that is why I like to have all the variables stated up front. This and the other thread has been a bit of a goose chase the way it has been presented. I just hate Kim started with a minor leak that he just wanted to remedy, and has ended up with something that seems considerably worse... but who really knows. Maybe it is fate and coincidence and would have happened at this point regardless if the several attempts to replace the rear main seal had or had not occurred. 

Play nice Mark, check your messages.  Couldn't care less about spelling.

As the majority of the   64   429’s have a ventilated  oil cap ( not Calf cars ) I would think you will visually  see the  crankcase blow by issue possibly without a need to be removing the oil filler cap at all 

That oil cap design by its nature ( ventilated ) should not allow much of a crankcase pressure  build up as it’s a pressure release outlet as I see it 

Most cars  from this period( I have owned )  have a solid non ventilated cap as best I know myself so removing the cap would be a good source of crankcase pressure condition trouble shooting 

A basic maintenance schedule for the 64 is to clean the oil filter mesh and clean the PVC valve at given intervals per the manual so no reason the crankcase ventilation system should suddenly be subject to a surprise necessary clean due to being dirty and clogged for a long period of time 

Just my 2 cents 

Enjoy 

All,  i removed the oil cap and there was no pressure build up or a priod of about a minute or so w my hand over the hole,  my 63 has a cap w lotsa holes in bottom

  I blew it pur w brake cleaner weeks ago.  

Took for ride, leak continued as before.

Heres what i think,  the fact that the opinions are some varied but basically,  all keep coming bk to one thing, installation fault,  improper gasket sealing or sealing material for proper sealing of the seal, crankshatf and or bearing damage.   Those are the notes im taking away from the discussion and will be emphsizing to the fellow at the shop.  It just needs experienced eyes and hands on it at this point.  Goes in on 11th,  hopefully an answer and successful repair by the 12th. I did my best,  time for a professional.  

Mark 

Your professional input and advice has been a very big asset to this site for a good many years as I have said before 
We are all trying to help —for sure !

Enjoy 

UPDATE ON REAR MAIN AFTER TRIP TO SHOP

I took the car to the shop.  I knew there was a minor leak around the rear of the valley cover,  he thought once oil got warmed up, it could be source.. I said i hope.  Long story short.   That was not it.

they pulled off everything.  i explained all the things i had done, we discussed manual procedure, slide ins, of upper seal hazards and i made him aware of as many comments as i could recall to look for problem and left it to him.   He also checked to see if there was any moment in the crankshaft  forward or back,, and he informed me there was none

i came back to pick up, he said it wasnt leaking.   i said yeah!!   i said did you drive, he said they took it up the road a ways, and let it run for probably 30 or so minutes in shop.   and left over night,, no oil..  i paid him,, and said I"ll be back,, so i took the car for about 20 miles up the interstate,, 65 or so MPH,  pulled over at overpass,  no oil..  turned around,, came back,, pulled in, and yep,  you guessed it..   it was leaking,  i was deflated!! 

When i came by the first day, he asked why i had "braised" the rear semi circle area of the oil pan,  I said i didnt, it was like that..  basically, the semi circe area looked like brass, i had always noticed it, but it seemed ok, things fit, etc..  he said he wouldnt have any idea why that would be there,  there were no cracks or anything.. so he said he did his best to make it as smooth as possible with out going to machine shop, and put it all back to gather.   He was stumped when i came back in with the leak,

  He said the only things he could thing of were that oil pan is just enough out of round that its not sealing up, despite the use of silicone and RTV products.   

Secondly, he said it may be a cam seal, but he couldnt tell due to its position, and he couldnt tell from the scope he was using..   

SOOO,,, from another round of observation and despair,,,   It doesnt happen at idle or slow or puttering around town,,   it happens when you get going, and takes about 15 or so miles or minutes to get enough flow or leakthroungh to come down and be enough fluid to leak out.   What i took note of from thsi was there is no oil on the front side of the plate just behind the it is coming out the backside where the fly wheel is, there is oil on the starter again.

Now, if it IS the oil pan being warped or un smooth enough to allow oil to pass through, would that show up on the front side of the panel or the back side of the panel that covers the flywheel.  

If anyone thinks it a cam plug, how would i check that?  

any other thgouths???

Well, the oil pan was one thing I pointed out on Oct 13:
"For all it's worth it is hard to see how it would just pour oil out of the seal unless it was torn during installation, but then would expect it ti leak out of the gate. This rear seal is  basically just a rubber seal wedged up to a turning metal cylinder. I would  clean, crank the engine and get under with a good light to confirm it is out of the rear seal area.  Since it just suddenly started leaking I am wonder if it might be the rear oil pan gasket."

With that if you want a good oil pan I will have one up for sale soon. I had it cleaned and had sanded it down and and was about prime.  This is a nice piece from that last running cadillac and has the built in baffle that many prefer. Price is $75 + s/h. I will be out of town this weekend but can hold it for you. If something you want to purchase shoot me an email to jasonedge@nc.rr.com.  I can send some pictures...it's bare metal right now but can prime probably tomorrow.

YEs, hold it for me,,  i am going to be traveling to MS over the next few days as well so right now there is no rush.  it just never occurred to me that the area that was braised or what ever that is, it wasmnt machined smooth but it was rough enough for him to feel the need to do something to it to smooth it out

Here is my question, and I think i know you explained it once but am asking again to refresh my memory..

can the rear oil pan gasket leak on either side of the flywheel cover or would it be side specific?  like i said, the open side does not have oil on it, just wondering if that would help in diagnosis. 

Kim, Sanding on oil pan completed this am and sent email with payment info. I sent 7 pictures but have inserted a couple here. Not sure who you are directing the question to or really understand the question? Oil coming out of the rear oil pan gasket would tend to fling toward the rotation of the flywheel ... not sure what is "open side"?

RSS

Photos

  • Add Photos
  • View All

Forum

Classic Cadillac Parts For Sale - Misc Items

Started by Jason Edge in For Sale. Last reply by Jason Edge 18 hours ago. 173 Replies

I have posted a few Misc items over on my Classic Cadillac Parts Facebook page at…Continue

Tags: classic cadillac parts, classiccadillacparts

Current 1963/64 Cadillac Listings on eBay

Started by Jason Edge in For Sale. Last reply by Jason Edge yesterday. 0 Replies

To see all 1963/64 Cadillacs Listed on eBay in the USA…Continue

Tags: ebay

Limo rear A/C box needed

Started by Anthony McCarn in Wanted to Buy. Last reply by Anthony McCarn on Saturday. 2 Replies

the case of my rear evaporator box was severely damaged by the p/o of my car. just in need of the case, but will buy a whole unit if the price is right. thanks!Continue

Tags: box, evaporator, conditioning, air, a/c

1963/64 Cadillac Chapter December 2019 Newsletter Posted

Started by Jason Edge in Newsletters. Last reply by Jason Edge on Saturday. 1 Reply

I have just completed and posted the December 2019, 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter Newsletter to our…Continue

Tags: Newsletter, Chapter, 2019, December

Blog Posts

still need a driveshaft

Posted by wayne weaver on November 26, 2019 at 11:53am 2 Comments

well thank you UPS for losing the driveshaft that Russ Austin shipped me. 

however i still need a rear driveshaft section for my 63. mine has a vibration due to the bushing inside of it. its a shame because the ball and sockets in the cardian joints are perfect but it has a woble on the balancing machine. so .  still need the rear section. anyone have a good one ? is there driveshaft alternatives to use ? i am really considering an LS swap and since im fighting the driveshaft search…

Continue

63 guidematic issues

Posted by maurice lapoiinte on November 24, 2019 at 3:10pm 0 Comments

 So my 63 guide matic headlamps stay on low beam all the time. I have so far bypassed the system and everything works normal. I have been thru the trouble shooting in the manual but this is where the confusion begins.on my car when the power relay is powered I have low beam and when its not powered I have highbeam, this appears to be opposite what the diagnosis says should be correct.The wiring is all original and no wires have been mixed up.has anyone ever unplugged the 2 wire connector…

Continue

Another advantage of the Pertronix III

Posted by Doug Scarrow on November 23, 2019 at 11:12am 1 Comment

   Having tried both the II and III I can say the multispark feature of the III offers a smoother idle . It is also easier to install .Does not require removal of the distributor

Stuck at two red (dash) lights!

Posted by Jeff Kinzler on November 3, 2019 at 10:00pm 9 Comments

I hope someone can help solve these two electrical problems that appeared one after the other.

By way of background: The car, a '64 Eldorado has very limited use. It was at a restoration shop for 15 months until last January-  that supposedly did a bunch of wiring repairs including rebuilding the gas gauge that still hasn't worked properly, and the clock that hasn't worked, and re-soldering the broken wires in the drive door. All window and seat controls appear to be…

Continue

Events

Videos

  • Add Videos
  • View All

© 2019   Created by Jason Edge.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service