FRONT END ALIGNMENT

[George Karageorge]

I have been finding it difficult to find a shop that can do an alignment on my 64 SDV.  The alignment heads that attach to the rear wheels come too close or touch the body.  I have been to 4 shops so far.  Will be going to Duty Tire as Jason suggested but I wanted to see if anyone has had this experience or can shed any light.

Short history of the work that I have done is replace upper lower ball joints, stab links, and control arm bushings.  The brakes have been totally redone-everything, and have been adjusted a number of times.

The car seems to ride straight maybe a slight wander to the right when steering wheel is let go.  When the brakes are applied car pulls to the left, I guess for lack of a better description at a medium intensity.  I have adjusted the brakes per manual a few times.

Thanks

George

[Tony and Ginny 429]

There are so many big trucks and cars today on the road there has to be a shop who can handle our year cars
A truck repair shop could be the answer
Get the alignment done
See how the car drives and behaves after the alignment

The brakes on our cars are a good bit more difficult to adjust and adjust correctly than most
It is important that both front rims and tires should have the same brake drag that you feel when you rotate the tire one full turn to stop where it started by grabing the tire and give it a full spin
On the rear tighten the shoes down until the drum just stops turning -then back off 4 clicks on the adjuster ( cannot spin a wheel due to the rear end gearing engagements )
Drive the car for a few minutes to be sure brakes are not binding or you could stress the trans
You should roll slowly slghtly foward when you release the brake at a stop
Brake adjusted correctly

As our adjuster holes are on the face of our brake drums under the rim
You will need make a brake adjustmet and remount the tire to the rim and do that until the adjustment feels correct when you do the tire spin
Like i did say a little more to do than many other cars with the adjustment hole at the back of the brake housing

I do have stock self adjusting brakes that are and working correctly
If the self adjusters are working as they were intended they will tighten up the brakes by just driving backwards and hitting the brake peddle
I will use the self adjusters after the initial brake adjustments have been done on a fresh brake job
If the self adjusters are not working correctly they can cause a given brake to tighten up to much and cause heat and damage to the brake shoe and drum
A problem called Glazing ( shoes get shinny and crack )

Enjoy

Enjoy

[Clovis]

I just got my front end aligned after ball joints and bushings. It was quite comical watching to say the least. First it was the skirts, I let the guy look for ten minutes before going into the shop area and slid my hand down with a little pressure and a quick twist it was off. The guy was dumbfounded lol. My car is lowered 2 inches so it was even harder for them to get the equipment on. They added spacers to the rear to make them stick out farther and used bungee cords to hold them on. The front equipment had to go in closer to clear the front fender but those were tightened in with jam nuts and bolts. Then he sat under the car looking how to adjust everything, actually scratched his head a few times before I went over and showed him the camber adjusters. He said he was just going to do it the old way with shims behind the control arms. I opened the hood and showed him how it was put together and asked how many shims it would take to get it set. I told him the procedure and gave him the alignment specs for radial tires Jason had posted here previously. They really don't like taking advice on alignments especially when it's different from "the book". I told them that the person who gave me these specs have had these cars for a long time so let's take a leap of faith! He laughed and said it should be all good.

I only got a front alignment not all four wheels so that may be what is the problem for you. They tried to insist on a four wheel alignment but I asked how would we go about aligning the rear wheels other than straightening the frame? So they gave up on the extra 50 bucks lol.

I also had the car pull to the side when braking at different times. After the front end rebuild I had to bleed the front brakes. All was fine until the next day about ten minutes from the alignment shop its pulling hard left. I thought grease? Left something loose? Bad tie rods after all? Didn't bleed the brakes good enough!! So the next morning I get in the car to go to a friends place to help bleed them some more and they are perfect! Things that make you go humm?

I just love this car. Four doors and all!!!

[George Karageorge]

Changed the original Pleasuriser front shocks out today with Gabriel classics, could not find pleasurisers for the front (did find some for the rear).  That did not correct the pulling to the left.  Shocks needed replacing anyway (52 years old) rubber bushings seen better days.  So i'm going to do the strut bushings next, got some from Kanter and did also find one original NOS, couldn't put myself to pop 100 on the rare parts bushings although I'm sure they are good.  I have a feeling the eccentric needs to be set right, but we'll see......

[Clovis]

George the eccentric will, in all likelihood have absolutely no effect on steering pull when brakes are applied. Either your steering system has worn part(s), strut rod bushings worn or something wrong with your brakes. To a lesser extent your front suspension will cause wandering also.
I can't remember if you've done brake work recently that required bleeding the front brakes but that could be the problem if not done correctly.
As I stated earlier in the post about having a pull to the left after my alignment I went and reinspected my front end. I found the right front flex line wet at the steel line connection. I tightend it a small bit and rebled the front brakes and all is perfect.

[George Karageorge]

Thats good to know about the eccentric, so I can focus on the brakes.  At speed the car does not wander much at all I would say pretty much none.  All the bake parts are new.  Guess I gotta pull out the magnifying glass.  I'm still going to do the strut rod bushngs since I got the parts in.

[Jason Edge]

If the car's front end has been aligned, the eccentrics have already been set to dial in the Camber (top of wheel tilt). Likewise, any front end shop should suggest (and require) new tie strut bushings if there is any doubt in their integrity before they are used to set Caster (ball joint angle). After you install new tie-strut bushings you will want to do another front end alignment. Keep in mind out of caster from bad tie struts can also make car pull.

Here are the basic alignment specs from or Help Page:

Camber for both bias ply and radials: left 0° and right =1/4°

Caster:  bias ply -1°; radials: +2°

toe in: bias ply 3/16" to 1/4" ; radials no more than 1/8"

In addition to camber and caster making the car pull to one side there are other causes listed on Page 4-1 in the shop manual which I have posted at the bottom. The wheel bearing adjusted to  tight would be one I would note if you have recently replaced bearings.

And of course the picture on page 4-6 is a great visual showing how the Ti Strut adjustment pulls the Caster in and out.

[David Thomas]

There is a notation in the shop manual front end alignment section stating you must loosen the strut rod to lower control arm attachment bolts before adjustment of the caster. This allows the strut rod and bushings to remain centered in the front crossmember hole. By not following that procedure, will result in premature wear of the strut rod bushing. 

[Jason Edge]

ALL of the bolt loosen and tighten sequencing on pg 4-6, Section 3.c needs to be followed exactly. After bolts at lower suspension (control) arm are loosened, and the caster is adjusted, you would tight bolts at lower control arms to 35 ft/lb, then while holding rear nut at front frame cross member, torque front nut to 35 ft/lb as to not disturb caster.  Then recheck caster. 

When adjusting the caster, it states that for negative caster, lengthen tie strut by loosening front lock nut AND tightening rear lock nut. Turning each nut as noted in sequence one turn will result in about 1/2 degree change in caster.  For positive caster you would do the reverse, shorten the tie strut by loosening the rear lock nut and tightening the front nut.

These are the types of instructions where if you get in a hurry and skip over the details and just go through the motions you may end off worse than when you started.

Back to my original point, however, I wouldn't even worry with adjusting Caster if I  knew I had old worn our bushings. Get the new ones in stalled first before doing the front end alignment. As noted in the shop manual it will not really affect tire wear, but is listed as a cause for the car pulling to one side, and from personal experience know a really worn out busted tie strut bushing can cause vibration.

[maurice lapoiinte]

George

after you get all your front end parts replaced if you still have an issue,I have come accross a couple of instances where the brake hoses have caused a pull to one side. some times brake hose collapse inside causing one side to get less brake pressure than the other resulting in a pulling condition. looking at the hose on the outside usually shows no issue because the problem is inside.If your hoses have a lot of mile on them they may be the problem.

maurice

[George Karageorge]

All the brake parts are new hoses everything except spring retaining pin 1100 (the short one).  I actually had a collapsed hose on another car recently.  Even though the mechanic said he thought it was steering related, I'm not so sure...maybe the right cylinder or the self adjusting parts are not operating properly.  I'll raise the car rotate both wheels step on brakes and see the reaction purely from just braking to see if the rt cylinder is not functioning.  Then I'll take the drums off and take another closer look.

When I'm driving even at low speeds 10 mph when the brakes are applied it immediately and uniformally goes left and I have to turn the wheel to the right to compensate.

[Anders]

"When I'm driving even at low speeds 10 mph when the brakes are applied it immediately and uniformally goes left and I have to turn the wheel to the right to compensate."

That indicates that left brake pads are touching the left brake drum a tad bit before the right. And its therefore most likely only correct adjustment needed. If self adjuster are working then you might have to drive reverse a few times...

[Russ Austin]

Try bleeding the front brakes. there may be air in the right wheel cylinder.