My head is about to explode!!!! I would like to reopen the discussion of the issue of getting the water pump to crossover connection to seal at the O-Ring.

 This all started because of a "gasket" leak at the water pump to front cover housing. The water pump was fine but since I had to remove the water pump to fix the leak anyway, thought I might as well replace the water pump. The original water pump to crossover connection was NOT leaking.

 To make everything go easy on myself, I removed the radiator, P/S pump and alternator. I had a nice clear path to the area to work on.

 When I removed the crossover, there was some very minimal corrosion at the male connection on the crossover to the water pump. I sanded the male connection with some 400 grit sandpaper, applied a skim coat of JB Weld to fill the small pits, then after the JB Weld dried, sanded that down smooth. Slick as snot on a door knob in January. 

 When I reassembled everything, I put the crossover and water pump together off the car. I put the O-Ring on the crossover male end first, put that into the water pump, then put that assembly back on the car, tightened and torqued everything to specs. Put the rest of the car back together and started adding antifreeze. As I was adding the AF, coolant started POURING out of the crossover to water connection. 

 Went to the repair manual where it stated to "coat the O-Ring with silicone". I had used assembly grease. It did also say to put the O-ring into the water pump first which Initially I put it on the crossover male end first. Then I read the 2021 discussion here about using 2 gaskets on the crossover to head connection to correct the angle due to gasket thickness. 

 So now I took just the crossover off, cleaned everything real good, used 2 gaskets on each side of the crossover to head, Put the O-Ring in the water pump housing FIRST, I did use assembly grease again because the shop manual did not say silicone sealant, it said silicone. Made sure that the male nipple seated good into the water pump, Tightened and torqued everything, crossed my fingers and then started to add antifreeze to the radiator. AGAIN, coolant started pouring out of the water pump to crossover connection. When I say pouring, I mean pouring. It might as well have been an open hole.

 If someone has an answer to this, I would really appreciate the advice! As best as I can tell, everything looks lined-up and installed correctly. Does the shop manual mean silicone sealant on the O-Ring???

Views: 47

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Hi,

you need to put 2 o-rings to waterpump. Some people use gasket sealer there as well.

Thanks Matti. When I was reading a variety of older posts, some said use two O-rings, some said two gaskets on the crossover to head connection. Knowing that I put the O-Ring on the crossover first and only used the gaskets supplied with the water pump, I wrongly figured those were my issues. Do you think along with doubling up on the O-Ring, do I still double up the gaskets on the crossover/head connection? Does that really make a difference? I really don't want to take this apart a 4th time if I don't have to. The car is supposed to go in today to have the transmission that I had rebuilt installed. I was actually hoping to be driving this restoration this weekend.

Hi Scott,

     This is the most frustrating part of the Cadillac 429 engine.  I have been working on my car many years, but this is the trickiest part.  The water pump, the crossover, O rings, and head connector.  Matti and Russ are right.  Better off with two O Rings and gasket maker.  Let it all set for a better seal.  Very frustrating.  Could have been designed better!!!

Dennis DiBari

Defiantly use black RTV gasket maker with 2 O rings.  Do not gob it into to hole as it will clog the passage way.  Put a little bit on the O ring and push down to the bottom of the water pump hole. Put more RTV on the installed O ring. Lightly coat the second O ring and install.  Clean out any stray RTV that squeezed down the hole of the water pump. 

Install the cross over tube and let it set for 24 hours before adding coolant. This is probably the most important step, as it sets the RTV up. 

Scott,

     I don't know if I would double up the gaskets on the crossover to head connection.  Try the one gasket per side and give it 24 hours to set before installing.  Two gaskets per side may be giving you too much space to leak.

Dennis DiBari

So, unfortunately I had to leave and go work on the car before the last several replies came in. My car is not at my home, I am doing the restoration at another location. Anyway, here is what I ended up doing:

I used two O-rings and two gaskets on the crossover to head connection. I also used a small amount of silicone sealer (blue, to match the engine color) on the O-rings. I waited only about a half hour due to time constraints before I filled the radiator.  

That seems to have worked. Before, as soon as I added the coolant, it would start pouring out of the O-ring connection immediately. This time, no leaks. BUT... I still don't know for sure if this actually fixed the leak. I could not start the car and let it warm up to temperature to check the repair. The transmission is out of the car and my starter is wired off to the side. This is why I had the time constraints. The trans was pulled last week to get rebuilt. I had an appointment today to have the transmission reinstalled. I had to get this engine in operating condition so the tech that did the trans overhaul could test drive the car after the instiall. And now as I am writing this, it just occurred to me that  I could have done a pressure test on the system!!! What a mess!!!! Should not be working on a car with a head that had already exploded!!! I'll update either tomorrow or Monday. I was late for my appointment so the trans might not get installed until then.Thanks again everyone!

Scott,

     You can only do so much on the Caddy.  The two O rings is better and let everything set a while before starting.  We all go through this; don't let it get you.  Give update when you start it and good luck with it.

Dennis DiBari, Cottekill, NY

RSS

Photos

  • Add Photos
  • View All

Forum

Help with missing bolts

Started by Phil in 1963/64 Cadillac Specific Discussion. Last reply by Phil on Saturday. 2 Replies

Hi y'all....Hoping to get some help here. I've checked my reference material and can't seem to find this info.My 63 convertible, non tilt steering column is missing the firewall bolts on the lower…Continue

Dino Radiator Leak - Time to Recore!

Started by Jason Edge in General Discussion. Last reply by Jason Edge on Saturday. 20 Replies

I had brought up the topic of radiator leaks as a discussion topic for our Chapter Zoom meet-up this past Sunday and thought I would share on our website for everyone and probably do a more formal…Continue

1964 Cadillac wagon by Victor Body Works

Started by john w. warner in For Sale. Last reply by Chris Codd on Friday. 1 Reply

Its on Hemmings.Needs work!Continue

Hesitation on starting after driving

Started by Dave Fehrle in 1963/64 Cadillac Specific Discussion. Last reply by Jason Edge Oct 29. 25 Replies

I have noticed that after I drive for 5-10 miles or more and then shut off the car, it hesitates when I go to start? Anyone experience this before and if so, what was the fix?Continue

Blog Posts

New old stock seat material

Posted by Ray Schick on August 22, 2024 at 6:25pm 2 Comments

I bought this seat material thinking that it’s…

Continue

Loud air moving sound within carb with cleaner removed

Posted by Dave Fehrle on March 23, 2024 at 3:23pm 8 Comments

While checking my Carter carb with engine running, I took the air cleaner off and there was a very loud hissing sound of air. I placed a piece of paper over the carb and it didn’t move up or down, is this normal?

Vintage Air AC

Posted by Chase on March 21, 2024 at 5:55am 0 Comments

Hey everyone, has anybody done a Vintage Air AC/Heat setup in their car? I want to bypass the old vacuum setup and go with a Vintage Air Gen 2 model. Before I get started, does anyone have any experience with this? (Which model to go with, do’s and dont’s, etc.) It looks pretty involved. Any and all info/pics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

accumulator dryer

Posted by CHRIS CARLSON on December 6, 2023 at 10:54am 0 Comments

Who rebuilds original AC  accumulator dryers for 1964 Cadillac? I have been on Classic auto air in Tampa FL wait list for over a year ,  There is one on Old air products web site that looks very similar to the original # 21-4214A but states it fits 1962 Gm cars, The one recommended for a 1964 Cadillac is half the length 21-4215A    What  is everyone using ? I would prefer to be as original as possible. Thanks

Videos

  • Add Videos
  • View All

© 2024   Created by Jason Edge.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service