exhaust manifold gasket repair

[Kim K Kaiser]

per suggestion, starting new thread, 

i got my gaskets in from fel pro,  no directions but went to fel pro site and they stated metal side up, so i have that figured out,  Also, got the slotted thread generic 2 1/4 screw (per Mark)  to go in and get in several times cleaning out any threads and was able to get all the way in , didnt tighten though, it was just a test and cleaning operation, so i think the holes are ready,

still haven't decided which way is best with my know ledge to attack the engine lift. whether Tonys method or Jasons, or Russ's where no lift at all,  so at this point on that, still making that consideration. but regardless of that......

What i did note is that the gaskets are thicker than what came out,, the slot is currently about a credit card thick as one will slip in and out easy,  the gaskets are curved or rounded on edges and appear to need to be flattened once in, so  I'm guessing, when you crank down on the manifold bolts, they will collapse and the rubbish underside will create a seal.. 

Now, whether engine is lifted or not, that gap wont expand for the gasket on its own,  I am guessing that i am going to have to remove or loosen the middle gasket attachment and bolts there and maybe the one back bolt to so that the manifold will sag enough to slide in the new gasket,  would that be correct?  and if that is the case, i should be testing those bolts as well so that they dont snap while loosening,  

Is this the correct thinking process for moving forward on this?

[Jason Edge]

- Were you able to get the one "hanging" bolt out? This is where it is hard for me to reply to your posts. The last I remember there was a bolt remaining that would not pull out due to clearance issue? This was the reason I recommended slightly raising the engine on the RH side.
- The only reason I would remove the other bolts would be to remove the exhaust manifold to have it planed/surfaced flat. The engine has close to 50K miles as I recall, which is considerable mileage on these older engines. If you are going to just install the new gasket and go, then you can just loosen the other exhaust bolts as you indicated to move the manifold slightly out to wedge the new gasket in place.
- However... if you have to loosen the other bolts anyway, I would also at least replaced those gaskets with new gaskets. As you indicated the new gasket is new. The others have close to 50K miles on them and may not be the exact same thickness as the RH Front gasket you will installing.
- Based on everything I have read, I would probably just replace all gaskets, torque bolts down, run in for a very short period... retorque bolts, run in for a longer period and retorque, and occasionally retorque maybe seasonally as you change oil and do other maintenance.  If it still leaks, pull the manifold and have it planed.

[Kim K Kaiser]

You are cirrect,  no, bolt not out, i will hv to remove either way, but i dnt see that manifold sagging eougg to allow that gasket in,  thus the boot loosening,  mid way down, but it would make sense to pukk the other rwo while tgere, so i think that gets my plan finalized

Thanks

[Kim K Kaiser]

well,, i took s quick turn at the middle bolts,, and they had twisted loose!!!  so I'm thinking may not have been long, they would have been wiggling out,, so, maybe getting the middle one out may not be bad,, hopefully, the worm is beginning to turn in my direction.

[Kim K Kaiser]

HELL YEAH!!!!!   done with the EM Gaskets!!   car is so damn quiet,, got in bolts from Jason, already had the exhaust off..took some time to get the gaskets to line up on the front and the back, 

i found that removing the alternator, and its lower bracket helped me reach and tighten those front bolts, bit of a pain but, it made it easier, got a set of those offset wrenches which really helped and another set that helped with the access.. 

i would say however, i dont know how in the hell I'm gonna be able to measure the ft lbs on those bolts,  May go to a shop and ask them to tighten to book standard. the front ones are horrible, that back ones are to to access,, i just gave them a good turning down without going too far.. till they felt tight,,,will turn them again tomorrow after a ride.  

also changed out the oil again after all the mmo and seafoam.  

i really think it sounds better now that it did before it started popping, I'm guessing that there was some leakage before, just minor, because it is really quiet now,, 

time for hot bath, and a martini, bask n my glory till the next noise,,i have been under that car all dam day,,

thanks to all that helped me with this,,couldnt have done it with out all the suggestions,  the repair was something of a conglomeration of all the info i received and put it to work,

[Jason Edge]

Kim, Congrats on the fix. With engine off and on an engine stand is about the only time I know you can get to all bolts to torque with a torque wrench. Since you do not have that luxury, this is my technique to get me in the ball park:
Per your shop manual torque on exhaust bolts is 60 ft lbs. So keep that in mind as your target.
-  Use a torque wrench and torque the bolts you can get to down to about 30 ft lb. Now tighten one of these bolts a bit more with a wrench and "feel" and remember the effort to make the bolt start turning again. Now tighten the other bolts with a wrench with the same amount of effort. Remember from our Help Section 14mm will give you better grip as the 14mm is just a tad smaller than 9/16". Since the bolts I sent had nice heads without much wear, you may need to tap the wrench on the head securely.  If you can get a 6 pt box end of the wrench on the head that will hold better than the open end if using a combination wrench.  
- Next torque one of the bolts you can access with a torque wrench to about 50 ft lb. Then switch out to a hand wrench and turn that same bold until it starts to turn a bit more. Feel the amount of effort you had to expend to make it turn a bit more. Now, take the wrench and go to the other bolts and tighten with the same amount of effort.  
- Finally torque the bolts you can get to the factory 60 ft/lb.  Then go to the other bolts and tight just a bit more with the wrench. That should put you in the  ballpark with the other bolts.
- Crank engine and let it warm up to normal operating temperature and run for a few minutes.  Then turn off, let engine cool, and retorque bolts you can get to and hand check the other bolts.  Then drive the car a few days and retorque again.  Periodically rechecked.
Don't let the above scare you. You are basically just torqueing down the bolts you can get to, doing a quick manual check of torque with wrench and tightening  the other bolts to what seems like about the same. This has always worked for me. There may be different types of torque wrench shaped like a wrench or something else that would give you better access but I am  not familiar with them but haven't searched for one either. 

[Tony and Ginny 429]

Sound like a proud ---Classic Antique Cadillac owner and you fixed a few real good problems you were having
In addition you are getting to know more about your ride than ever before ---Priceless ( but really just a bit expensive )
Time to put a few miles on your ride and ENJOY IT

Enjoy