Original engine bay paint colors 1963 DeVille w/o A/C

[Scott Santora]

 I just started on the restoration of my 1963 De Ville convertible without A/C. At some point in the car's past, someone took a rattle can of blue paint (not even Cadillac blue) and tried to "detail" the engine bay. Long story how that happened but, that would be a story for another time. 

 I would like to restore the engine to original colors. What I can't seem to find is what color the fan blade was from the factory. When I started sanding the fan blades down for what I thought would be a fresh coat of flat black, I uncovered blue paint. Then as I sanded a bit more, I got down to another layer of black paint. I am thinking black is the correct color as I have no memory of ever seeing any GM car with fan blades any color other than black. Since the bottom layer of paint was black, that is probably the original.

 Jason has an excellent picture and listing of the original colors for his 390 engine. Problem with that however, his engine has a clutch fan while my non-air-conditioned car only has the four-blade fan, no clutch.

 I have three questions, for now anyway,

1. Does anyone know what color the fan blade would have been originally? 

2. Did the 63 DeVille have a radiator shroud? 

3. I would like to change the flat black to gloss black. Does using gloss black instead of flat black hurt the value of the car or integrity of the restoration?

 Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Hi Scott,

     I own a 1964 Cadillac, 2 door Series 62, and also did a restoration of the car.  My wife's dad is the original owner and it just turned 60 years old.  After being dormant for 30 years, I did my best to make it as original as possible, doing most of the mechanic work.  I believe the fan blade is black (mine is also a four blade - no clutch).  My 64 has no A/C and had no shroud for the radiator.  I did purchase a shroud from a 64 DeVille and it fit with minor shimming (tough to find one).  I did this to ensure no overheating and also replaced the hood to shroud rubber affixed to the inside hood.  As far as gloss black vs. flat black, I am not 100% sure.  I posit that the air cleaner, fan blade, alt. bracket, etc. are gloss black.  The interior fenders, firewall, etc. may be flat.  Hope some of this helps.

Dennis DiBari, Cottekill, NY

[Scott Santora]

Thanks for the feed back Dennis!

 I appreciate any help I can get. I was pretty sure the fan blade was black but confirmation is nice. My 63 does not have the rubber shroud on the hood, or a radiator shroud for that matter. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think this car ever had either.

 This car was originally my father's car. He bought it new from the dealership. It only has 22,006 original  miles. No, the speedometer did not turn over. Growing-up, we were never allowed anywhere near the car. To this day I can still hear my parents yelling "don't touch the Caddy!". I do remember my father having over heating issues with the car. I don't believe he ever found out what the problem was and by that time in the cars history, I had grown-up, got married  and moved out. Unfortunately, after dad had passed, I found the reason for the over heating. Dad did not change the oil year after year. When I first got this car running back in 2008, one of the first things I did was change the oil. Well, by the look of what came out of the oil pan, that may have been the cars FIRST and probably it's only oil change. Can't wait to see what that engine looks like when I dig in. Besides caked in sludge, I'm guessing new bearings will be on the parts list. 

 I agree with you, alt bracket and air cleaner were definitely gloss black. I wasn't sure, but I went ahead and have already painted the P/S pump and bracket gloss black. It's the fan blade that I wasn't sure about. If you're sure it's gloss black, I'll have to take your word.

 Thanks again for your help.

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Hi Scott,

     We both have very similar stories about owning the car and keeping it in the family!  My father-in-law was the same way, as no one was allowed near the Cadillac.  It is too bad your dad didn't do the oil changes as you only have 22,000 miles on the Caddy!  You might be surprised if you take off the intake manifold - it may not be terrible.  One thing you might try right away is to add one pint of Marvel Mystery Oil to the crankcase and one pint into the gas tank and run the engine.  I have been doing this for the past 50 years on all my cars and it is the best cleaning agent around (gets into the hydraulic lifters and rings).  My dad always used this, and he was a master mechanic.  

I do believe the fan blade is good gloss black - you can't go wrong.  My metal shroud is an original from a 1964 Coupe de Ville and it fits the same radiator bracket.  It could also help with overheating.  I can let you know where I purchased it - may be worth a try.

Great talking to you,

Dennis DiBari

[Scott Santora]

Dennis,

 Funny you mentioned the Mystery Oil. I am familiar. So back in 2008 and 09, the last times the car was driven, I started adding Sea Foam to the engine and fuel tank. I changed the oil twice, if I remember correctly. I doubt the little I drove it back then that the Sea Foam would have had any impact, but you never know. I haven't dug into the engine yet but I was quite surprised what the Sea Foam did with the fuel tank. When I looked into the fuel tank. It was surprisingly clean. I was tempted to just replace the straps and sending unit and reinstall it. I did do the right thing and sent the tank out anyway to get reconditioned.

 Here's a question for you. Did your 64 have the Delco Moraine master cylinder or the Bendix? My 63 has the odd ball Bendix master cylinder and I have struck out at every turn trying to find either a complete master cylinder or a rebuild kit.

Scott

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Hi Scott,

     Very interesting about the Sea Foam in the gas tank - I never heard of that!  You did the right thing by getting the gas tank reconditioned!!!!  Every oil change add the Marvel Mystery and once in a while, some into the gas tank; it's great.

     I did a complete overhaul of the brake system in my 64.  My car has the Delco Master Cylinder and the Delco Power Brake Booster.  I replaced both of them.  I am glad they were built with the Delco.  I feel it is a better product.  I know a great rebuilder for masters and boosters if you need him (in New Jersey).

If you can get a shroud for your 63, it might be worth the work.  I posit that it will run cooler.  I am glad I found one and installed it.

Good luck and thanks for talking.  I believe you are in Ohio - I'm in New York and the weather for both of us is still winter.  No heated garage for me but worked all winter and got a lot done.

Dennis DiBari

[Scott Santora]

Dennis,

 Yep, you're right about the weather and yes I am in Ohio. Live in a suburb of Cleveland, Strongsville. I'm not getting as much done as I would like right now.

 I might just want that contact in Jersey. To be honest, I don't even know if the master cylinder is bad or not. I was just trying to be proactive with the brakes. I already bought new wheel cylinders and brake hoses. I'm taking the position that a 61 year old car with original rubber and brakes is more likely than not, going to have braking issues. I want to drive the car, not die in it.

 I'm going to give the hunt a few more weeks before I give up. I'm hoping I don't have to convert the brakes to Delco. Not for the cost but rather in trying to keep the car original. I might not have any choice though. 

 By the way, do you have any before and after pictures of your car? I'd like to see what you've done. It's been nice. Stay in touch. 

Scott

 

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Hi Scott,

     I would change the master cylinder after all those years, as the fluid breaks down and gets too thick.  Get a new one and bench bleed it before you put it on.  You'll get a better brake pedal.  I also try to stay original, but sometimes you just can't get the available parts.  My email is [e-mail].  I can send you some pictures of my Caddy; restoring it the past 1.5 years.  We'll talk soon - great discussions!

Dennis

[Cees de Bunje]

Hi Scott. A 1963 non-air-conditoned Cadillac does not have a fan shroud. Only the ac ones.

[Scott Santora]

Thanks Cees, I didn't think it had a shroud but wanted to check. I appreciate the confirmation