Dino Radiator Leak - Time to Recore!

[Jason Edge]

I had brought up the topic of radiator leaks as a discussion topic for our Chapter Zoom meet-up this past Sunday and thought I would share on our website for everyone and probably do a more formal write up later on.

SO THE SUNDAY BEFORE LAST, me, my wife Cheryl and our Yorkie Presley took a spin down to local frozen custard shop. my 64 Coupe de Ville 'Dino' was running good but Cheryl noticed a bit of steam or misting from under the hood. It was not running hot, in fact just above the 1/4 marks as always. 

BACKING UP A BIT, I had noticed some leaking around the now old radiator hoses and those Tower Clamps. Tower clamps were original, but only allow so much tightening (unlike worm gear clamps), and I had tightened most to the max and still saw a bit of the green after long drives and figured it was time for new hoses and to go back with some of my better cad plated clamps. I also saw some dripping around the drain valve. I have plenty of those, so no big deal.

BUT RECENTLY I saw what looked like some seepage from the lower edge of the upper tank at a solder seam.. nut since it was beneath the cap, not sure again if it was a physical leak. 

NOW BACK HOME AFTER THE "STEAMING" ENGINE BAY,  I fired it up and saw intermittent mists of steam blowing out from the cooling fan air flow. I then looked at the rear of the radiator through the fan shroud and fan blades and saw IT IS LEAKING FROM THE CORE! 

THAT MEANS TIME TO RECORE!

I BROUGHT THIS UP AS A DISCUSSION TOPIC, in our zoom meet-up as I really hadn't done much research, and there was a good discussion regarding repairing, replacing the core (recoring), and old school shops still around that provided the recore service.  I also shared the current listings of radiator service shops listed in this past month's Hemmings Motor News.  A couple of members suggested local shops. Roy Brosi even checked with a local shop the next day and is waiting on pricing.

LOCAL SHOP TO THE RESCUE! For over 100 years there had been a Sapps Radiator Shop in the Raleigh/Garner area but remember they had closed at some point. Someone said they had reopened under a new name. Google quickly determined they were doing business under the name Holmes Welding and Radiator Service.... and here is the kicker... only 3 miles from me!  I have had and sold a few pretty decent used Harrison 3-row original radiators over the years but right now I only had one that looks like it may be leaking and needs the core replaced.

So, yesterday I headed to Holmes Radiator with that extra radiator in hand, and had a very positive experience with the owner Leroy Holmes, who has 40+ years experience, and is someone that definitely knows their way around these old radiators. He immediately started spouting of specs and facts that made me know I was in good hands. He ask me to give him a couple of hours so he could check ordering the cost and get a final cost back to me.   

He called back and said $787 and it would be like new! I was actually thinking (& hoping) $700 to $800.  I know this is not 1980 and you are not going to get this done for a couple of Benjamins like you could 40 years ago.  I also knew I would have spent more to stay original ... but really, really didn't want to go much over $1000!  I gave him the green light, and he said he would order the new replacement core and should have it completed by next week. 

Since it has been a while since I have done any real restoration or repairs on Dino, I will share this as  I go along on the website forums, and put together a tech tip article for future newsletter, and add radiator related information to our Help Page and Parts & Service page. I will wait to get my radiator back before I add Holmes Radiator to our Parts & Service page, but have a good feeling about this.

Stay tuned for more!  Below are a few quick pictures to accompany the write-up above.  Jason. 

Dino's Radiator Leak from back facing side of radiator! Not good!

Top Section at front bottom of upper tanks seems to be springing a leak!

Here is the original Harrison 3-Row Radiator I dropped off at Holmes Radiator Yesterday

Here is this months listing of Radiator Service Shops in the Nov 2024 Issues of Hemmings Motor News. This was shared in our Zoom Meet-Up Sunday.

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Jason,

     This is great news about Holmes Radiator Repair and the fact that it is in such close proximity, makes it an added blessing!!!!!  To get a three row radiator sounds like more than serendipity!!!  Good luck with the installation; it will work out great.  Presley wants another custard trip in Dino!

Dennis DiBari

[Jason Edge]

"Presley wants another custard trip in Dino!" --> I do too!

[Jason Edge]

I will be adding quite a bit of discussion here regarding radiators in the coming days and weeks.  I have several things to share right now in addition to the above but will go slow!

I did want to go ahead and add Razzi's Radiator in Glenside PA to our Parts & Service Page, since our CLC President Ronnie Hux highly recommends them. 

Here is their information:

Razzi's Radiator & Air Conditioning - https://razzi215.wixsite.com/razziradiator
129 Cricket Ave, Glenside PA 19038, 215-884-9514
Highly recommended Radiator repair shop. 

[Jason Edge]

One more thing I might add, is if you look at my radiator cap in the 2nd picture in the original post, that is the original style cap. It should say NEVERY OPEN HOT at top and INSPECT FALL & SPRING  at bottom. 
with AC on the left (the company as in AC Delco) and 15 LB RC15  on the right. 
Original Part # was 861 050. Not the easiest item to find but found this one NOS some time back. There were other later styles, with different wording but this was the original.

[Jason Edge]

I received my new Radiator Hoses today. I knew I would want new hoses and first saw that Caddy Daddy has a correct looking contoured set for $99. I then checked Amazon and they had the Gates 20489 lower hose for $19.80 and the Gates 20492 upper hose for $16.48.   I checked my notes and there were the hoses I had went to before and occasionally kept on and and sold.   I ordered a couple sets to make sure I had a back up later on! I was actually not "shocked" by the Caddy Daddy price (I've seen them sell used fittings and such that I sell for $10 to $20 for almost $200!), and $99 was a deal compared to their individual hoses, but thru Amazon I pick up both for $36.28... at a $66 savings!

From all the documentation I have the original hoses were smooth, contoured to fit of course, and did not have the huge screaming part # I see some people running on their cars.  You can look in your shop manual on page 2-4 and see the upper hose. If you scan and get up close it looks like it might have had a stripe on it...but CLC judges generally want to see nice fitment with the smooth hoses. 

Anyway, here is what I received today thanks to Amazon Prime.

 

[Jason Edge]

I just put a link to a scan of this very timely article in the October 2024 Self-Starter Magazine:

- Radiators: Aluminum vs Copper (Oct 2024 Self-Starter Article)

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Jason,

     I read this article when I received the Self-Starter this month.  Good article and presents both perspectives on the two different types.

Dennis DiBari

[Jason Edge]

I finished removing my leaking radiator tonight and have to say it looked rougher than I thought it would, especially the upper and lower tanks. The upper tank seems to be bowed up a bit and see what looks like maybe previous repairs. My plan had been to swap out this one for the other one that is being rebuilt  & recored, so I will another like new back up, but I don't want to make sure I provide a good one to rebuild.  Either way this one is out. 

Steps I took for radiator removal without looking at shop manual were:
- raise from end up a bit,
- put a long low tote underneath to catch coolant and transmission fluid
- remove radiator cap and drain fluid via the drain valve at bottom
- disconnect and remove radiator hoses  (They will be replaced with new ones)
- disconnect the two transmission cooler lines from bottom tank.
- remove the 2 upper radiator cradle brackets, leaving the fan shroud loose
- push the fan shroud back and use a long extension and socket to remove 2 bolts securing shroud to the 2 bottom radiator cradle brackets
- carefully move the shroud rearward (fan does not have to come off)
- gently lift the radiator out.

Pretty straight forward stuff. Of course I went ahead and removed the shroud as it will now lift up and out, and will clean and paint again. 

Looking around now with radiator and shroud out I will be hard pressed not to do some clean up and touch up painting in the area.

Below is a picture of my leaking radiator now out of the car and on the garage floor!  That lower lip on the upper tank seems to be bowed up. It is straight across on the front side and on both sides of the donor radiator in the shop now as I recall. 

[Jason Edge]

Got a call from Holmes radiator today and said they were getting close with my radiator and needed another one of those clips on the side that holds the overflow hose in place. These are often missing or rotting away and luckily I had two that were bead blasted and ready to install and took them two.  I have inserted at bottom of this reply a stock picture of two of them below and another picture of one mounted to side of radiator. 

I got into a conversation about the tower clamps and asked of there was some kind of strong tape, or something I could use to build up the water neck since the tower clamps only tighten so much.  He gave me  couple of rubber sleeves that I think may work perfect. The top hose is 2 1/16" and the bottom is 2 1/2", so I will have to give them  a try and maybe find some more.   At least I feel like I am on the right path to finding a way to better secure the radiator hoses to the radiator hoses with the old school tower clamps. More on this later.

The good new is my radiator should be ready first of the week. I have yet to repaint my shroud and will want to go slow and and easy installing and I am not in a big hurry, but I am anxious to see the finished radiator.  In all my years around cars. this is the first one I have had recored/rebuilt. But I am probably the only person that has pulled in 60 donor cars and has usually had a good used one sitting on the shelf. 

[Roy Brosi]

Once again I was inspired by the discussion during the Zoom Meet-Up meeting. I always figure, any day you learn something, it's a good day, and those rare days you can share something with others, it's a great day. Every Zoom meeting is a good day for me, because so many of you are having a great day.

I offered to check a local shop, as Jason indicated, but first inspected my radiator. I found some seepage and green copper oxidation at both top corners. The local shop (Leonard's Radiator in Center Township, PA) needed to take measurements of the radiator to give me a good quote. Apparently, prices are driven heavily by the cost of copper, so, in this case, size matters. Easiest way to get the dimensions was to simply drive the car up to the shop.

Price for a re-core going from two row to three row was $800 +tax. This would add side supports to reduce a separation issue, apparently common to these radiators. The rebuild would add more solder than original, but it would look reasonably original. The price for a meticulous rebuild would be $950 +tax, simply because the extra time that would be involved to get the solder joints and paint perfect.

I took the car to a local Caddy Club sponsored cruise on Saturday (it was great to meet Joe and other guys from the club). I pulled the radiator Sunday and dropped it at the shop on Monday. Ken called Thursday and said I could pick it up Friday morning. It looks great, to me, so I installed it this morning. The turnaround was so quick, I haven't bought the new coolant yet, so I'll see if it holds water this evening or tomorrow morning.

I will try to post a few photos, although that's eluding me right now.

[Roy Brosi]

Ok. I'm sure it's not that hard to post photos, but it isn't intuitively obvious to me. Any hint would be appreciated.

Roy

[Jason Edge]

Roy, If on a mobile device select desktop view from drop down in upper right in screen.
When in desktop view you should see a series of boxes over the reply box. Hover your mouse over them until you see the mountain scene. It will say "Image". Click it and then find the pictures on your device to upload. I can also  go back and insert the pictures you sent me into your original post. I may try to do that in a bit.

I was going to thank you for posting this. It sounds like you have also found a reputable radiator shop.  In 10 or 20 years from now these shops may be very hard to find and it is a good idea to get them recored/rebuilt now. I am looking forward to getting mine back!