1963 & 1964 Engine and Transmission Facts

I am copying this information over from the old 63/64 site.  In time I will continue to add to and edit as needed. 

1963 390 and 1964 429 Engine History and Differences

-The 1963 390 was a totally redesigned engine compared to the 62 and earlier 390's. It was 50+ lbs lighter, engine accessories including the distributor was moved to the front and used a new aluminum engine cover that incorporated the oil pump, the length and height were both shortened, they switched to a hollow-cast crank and switched to an alternator-rectifier charging system. The bore, stroke and horsepower (325) were the same as the 62 390 however this was a lighter, more agile 390 than the old design.

- For 1964 they took the new redesigned 63 390 and increased the bore and stroke increasing the displacement to 429 cubic inches and horsepower to 340.

-They also used two different crankshafts on 64 429's (see Transmission section below)

- The 1964 429 used with Hydramatics had a crank with a raised rear "drive plate" mounting area that was 3 3/16" across.

- The 1964 429 used with Turbo Hydramatics had a crank with a raise rear "flexplate" mounting area that was 3" across.

-Other than a few other minor changes including redesigned right exhaust manifolds,  larger higher capacity oil pump gears in the front aluminum engine cover, air breather housing inlet enlarged,  power steering pump cooler added, etc.) the 1963 390 is very similar to the 1964 429....especially the 1964 429 with the Hydramatic crank...as they will both mount up to the older style Hydramatics.

-In 1965, the engine was moved forward, the motor mounts were changed, the oil pan was changed to a front sump pan and their were other changes such as pistons that are different from 1964.


Hydra-Matic and Turbo Hydra-Matic Transmissions

- In 1963 all body styles came with the Hydramatic (shift pattern PND1D2LR and sometimes called Jetaways) transmission and bolted directly to the back of the 1963 390 block.

- The Hydramatic transmission between 1961 to 1964 will interchange with no modifications. They changed the reverse cone in 1962, but the transmission housing itself is the same.

- The 75 series and Commercial Chassis Hydramatic were slightly different in that they had a heavy duty reverse clutch and higher capacity oil pump, however, they are externally physically the same and will bolt right into a regular body style. (I put one in a 1964 62 series coupe some time back.)

- In 1964 the 62 series, 75 series (limos) and commercial Chassis continued to use the Hydramatic and again bolted directly up to the back of the 1964 429 block.

In 1964 the DeVilles, Eldorado and Fleetwood 60 Special Body style went to the "Buick Borrowed" and new for 1964 Turbo Hydramatic (shift pattern PRNDL and sometimes called Turbo 400 since other makes have called it by this name over the years. In order to bolt the "Buick" Turbo Hydramatic (sometimes called Turbo 400) to the back of the Cadillac 429 an adaptor ring was used.

- The 1964 "Buick Borrowed" Turbo Hydramatic was a one year transmission as the Bell Housing was changed in 1965 to allow the transmission to mount directly up to the 65 429.  There were also some other internal changes and the new 1965 THM had a 2 Drive Range as seen in the shift quadrant picture below.

 

- Swapping the Transmissions

==> While the hydramatic drive plate with the 3 3/16" center opening will mount right up to Turbo Hydarmatic crank since the bolt patterns are the same, there is a gap and will usually rip out in short order.

==> the Turbo Hydramatic flex plate opening has to be opened up to exactly 3 3/16" to mount to the Hydramatic crank end and...if it is not exactly centered and a snug fit it to will quickly rip out.

===> A best option is the swap out the correct 429 crank designed to find the Hydramatic drive plate or Turbo Hydramatic flexplate.


Other Difference between Hydramatic and Turbo Hydramatic equipped cars

To go from Hydramatic to Turbo Hydramatic or vice versa consider these additional difference between cars with the Hydramatic and the Turbo Hydramitic

==> Front driveshaft section on TH equipped cars is longer (putting a TH in a 63 or 64 limos requires the front drive shaft section from a 1965 limo)

==> Front cross member Yaw Mounts and the rear transmission mount are different

==> Starters were different

==> 1964 Turbo Hydramatic has adaptor ring, hydramatic doesn't

==> TH uses electric kick-down switch, Hydramatic used the TV Rod

==> Instrument cluster shift indicator display (PRNDL on TH and PND1D2LR on Hydramatic.

==> Hydramatic uses a drive plate that mounts to the torus while        Turbo Hydramatic has flexplate with starter gear teeth that mounts to the torque converter

==> turbo Hydrmatic had vacuum line from vacuum modulator up to vacuum fitting on back of carb where brake power booster connects

==> Neutral Safety switch is different if swap out is in a 64, due to different in shift pattern

Views: 5277

Tags: 390, 429, engine, hydramatic, transmission, turbo hydramatic

Comment by Art Archambeault on January 25, 2013 at 9:13pm

good stuff Jason. Job well done. art, sixfins

Comment by Guido Vanduffel on March 11, 2013 at 4:18pm

Hi there, i want to now the difference between some engine's and numbers?

My cadillac 1965 Fleedwood limo 75'er (bodystyle 1964) is equiped with a 429 engine with engine number 1481283.

My shortblok is broken and i searching for a new old one for rebuilding it.

I found a 429 engine with the number 1482586 and a engine with the number 1495156.

My cluster shift indicator is : PRNDL so i think my car is equiped with the TH400 Turbo Hydramatic witch is fitted trough a adapterplate.

I have see that the engine with number 1482586 has the oilpan to the front and another waterpump with a reverse outlet.

The cluster shift indicator from this car is also PRNDL, but the belhousing is mounted direct to the engine without the adaptor.

Can i place this engine in my car, when i changed the oilpan with the one from my old engine and changing the waterpump with the rightone.

Or need i the transmission as wel?

Also is it possible the fit a 472 engine in this car without extreme modifications.

- engine mounts (will they fit)

- transmission mounts

- radiator

- airco pump

This is the last option when i can't find a good 429 and it is possible to place this one in the car.

 

Are there pictures from the crank difference below?

- The 1964 429 used with Hydramatics had a crank with a raised rear "drive plate" mounting area that was 3 3/16" across.

- The 1964 429 used with Turbo Hydramatics had a crank with a raise rear "flexplate" mounting area that was 3" across

With regrets Guido

 

Comment by Jason Edge on March 11, 2013 at 7:50pm

The 1964 75 series used the "Hydramatic" 429, whereas the 1965 used the Turbo Hydramatic 429.  IT also retained the 1964 body style and large X cross frame so you need the 429 with the 64 style motor mount brackets. You can stick any engine you like in their including the huge 472/500 blocks but you will be doing some modifications.

To stay original you need to either use a 1964 Turbo Hydramatic 429, or 1965 Turbo Hydramatic from a 75 series, or if your crank is OK you can use a 1964 Hydramatic 429 and swap in your crank.

The cranks are very easy to identify as the raised mounting are for the TH flexplate crank is exactly 3" and the raised are for the hydramatic drive plate is 3 3/16" as indicated above.

 

Comment by Guido Vanduffel on March 12, 2013 at 3:30pm

Is the 429 engine with the 64 style motor mount brackets the same as the otherone 429.

I mean : do i need only change the motor mounts to fit all 429 engines ?

my car has the turbo hydramatic .

Witch is the best supliers for engine overhaul kits specialised in the 429.

 

- if i have it right : i can fit a 472 engine in this car, when i changed the motor mounts from the 429 to the 472 engine.

Then it fits to the turbo hydramatic 400 without changes.

Only the waterpump,radiator,airco have to addapt..

But when i find a good 429, it wil be this one to keep the car original.

 

With regrets Guido

 

 

Comment by Jason Edge on March 12, 2013 at 3:43pm

Guido, Perhaps there is a language barrier but above it states
"-In 1965, the engine was moved forward, the motor mounts were changed, the oil pan was changed to a front sump pan and their were other changes such as pistons"

This means that the 1964 429 will not directly bolt into a regular body style 1965, and a 1965 429 will not directly bolt into a 1964.   Your 1965 75 series is a carry over from the 1964 style, and that is why you need a 1964 429 or 1965 75 series 429 to bolt directly back into your 1965 75 series. Due to the change in frame the mounting ears for the motor mounts (not just the motor mounts) were moved a bit.

Kanter (www.kanter.com) is a great source for engine rebuild kits. I rebuilt my 1964 429 using their rebuild kit last year and the only thing that did not come in their kit that I had to buy from Rock Auto Parts was the rear of engine cam plug.

 

Comment by Guido Vanduffel on March 12, 2013 at 4:12pm

Due to the change in frame the mounting ears for the motor mounts (not just the motor mounts) were moved a bit.

This is what i am searching for, it helps a lot Jason thanks for this info, now i can continue my search for the right engine it must be a engine with the number 1481283 that have the right mounting ears and crank.

 

US engines are a littlebit different than the europe ones :-)

 

Thanks for the thats wy i asking it to you and excuse for the bad american englisch there my mother language is dutch.

 

greetings Guido

Comment by Denis Lachapelle on May 7, 2013 at 7:04pm

will the motror and tranny from a 63 (390 and hydramatic)

fit in my 1960 coupe de ville ?

thanx Denis

Comment by russ austin on May 7, 2013 at 7:55pm

The tranny is the same, although some internal changes or upgrades.  The engine has the same motor mount setup.  The accessories may need to be swapped, but the 60 should take the 63/64 engine

Comment by Denis Lachapelle on May 7, 2013 at 8:56pm

64 uses the 429 and  seems to have the sump going the other way, doesnt it ?

What about a 429 and turbo 400 setup, would very much like that setup but dont know how much is involved. My car has a bad tranny.  and am looking for options.

anybody have a good ranny I can use.

Comment by Jason Edge on May 7, 2013 at 9:28pm

63 & 64 had the  rear sump oil pan. swapping out the shorter, physically different turbo hydramatic in a 1960 Cadillac will include some of the same issues as swapping out a Hydramatic for a Turbo hydramatic in 1963 or 1964 Cadillac as seen at the bottom of post on this page: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/enginesandtransmissions

If you are not installing with the 1964 429 with all accessories all items would need to be addressed at the bottom of the page

Things you would need to consider specifically even if you installed the 1964 429 Hydrmatic engine would include:

 ==> Front driveshaft section on TH equipped cars is longer (putting a TH in a 63 or 64 limos requires the front drive shaft section from a 1965 limo)

==> Front cross member Yaw Mounts and the rear transmission mount are different

==> TH uses electric kick-down switch, Hydramatic used the TV Rod. Even if using a 1964 429 you still need a key on switched power lead to the kick down switch.

==> Instrument cluster shift indicator quadrant (PRNDL on TH and PND1D2LR on Hydramatic.

==> Neutral Safety switch is different due to different in shift pattern

.

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