Is my distributor off a tooth or two?

[Linda M. Brooks]

I need some help/advice guys and gals!  The short story: I purchased my '64 deVille in 2011 from dealer in Utah.  Drove it home with a couple of minor issues to Virginia.  Started working on headlight switch, undr dash pad vacuum tubing, etc.  Due to work schedule, etc, I let the car sit until this year - I know, I've beat myself up enough.

Going through anything that may give me trouble (hoses, cap/rotor/points/condenser, belts ...) on the 2,200 mi trip home to Montana.  I just replaced my pts/condenser, found my vacuum advance is bad (ordered one), and was starting to swap the plug wires onto the new cap when placement of #1 didn't look right.  Firing order is 18726543, and the workshop manual's picture of the cap with wire numbers marked shows #1 between screw and window, and #8 next, at the corner of the window, CW.  The way it was wired is #1 is CCW two positions.  The firing order is correct and the car ran well back then.

Am I nuts or did the rebuild mechanics get the distributor in wrong and made up for it by clocking the wires to get it to run?  The shop manual that came with the car is marked with highlights, stars and question marks, leading me to think this may have been their first rebuild.

I'm new at posting, will try to add photos.  Thanks in advance for any help,

Linda

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Hi Linda,

     It is hard to ascertain what mechanics do when they work on the car.  I would carefully put the wires on the new cap in the order of the shop manual diagram, following the 18726543 firing order.  With the new cap on, carefully mark the side of the distributor that aligns straight down with the number 1 socket on the distributor cap.  I would then remove the driver's side valve cover at this point.  Using the ignition key, you can have someone "click" the starter to align the harmonic balancer to 0 degrees.  (You can also turn the engine by hand if it is free enough to turn via the fan).  You now have to see if this is True TDC.  Look at the valve stems for cylinder 1 - they should both be closed.  If not, go around the the next TDC.  At TDC, pull the distributor cap off and see if the contact point of the rotor is exactly aligned with the mark you made on the distributor.  If not, you may have to pull the distributor and set it to the number one mark.  Hope this helps.  By the way, Chris Carlson (Minnesota) is a distributor expert and he is one of our members.  He rebuilt my distributor and it is perfect when I put it back.

Dennis DiBari, NY

[Linda M. Brooks]

Thanks Dennis, if I want it corrected I'll follow your instructions.  I may wait to do that when I'm home in Montana, I'm getting nervous being in VA this late in the year with that trip and possible bad weather out west.   Thanks also for the contact info on the distributor rebuild, I'll certainly use Chris for that.  Thanks so much for your reply!

Linda

[Russ Austin]

Put it back the way you found it will work. It sounds like the prev owner clocked the distrib wrong and wired it accordingly.  If it works, it works.  

[Linda M. Brooks]

Thanks Russ, I think I'll put them like they are until I get home.  I saw many underwood photos on the Internet with wacky plug wire configurations to add to my confusion.  Thanks so much for the advice!

Linda

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Linda,

     Last thing.  Check that your distributor plate is also not stuck/frozen.  While you change the vacuum advance, see if the plate is free.  If not, the advance will not work at initial high vacuum.  

Dennis DiBari

[Linda M. Brooks]

Yes, thanks Dennis, I was able to move the plate and see the arm move toward the dead vacuum unit.  Glad I did that instead of finding out later.  Put a little lube on the advance weight undersides after cleaning, and a little on the lobes. 

I also replaced the vacuum modulator, just in case.  Old rubber may not be reliable.  I should be able to start it tomorrow, have spark at #1 (new cap with wires the way they were, for now) and fuel at the carb inlet.  I may have too much Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders, ha.

Thanks!  Linda

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Great work Linda!  You truly covered everything.  Good luck with the trip.  As far as Marvel Mystery Oil, I have been using that 50+ years - it is great.

Dennis

[Linda M. Brooks]

Thanks for the compliment Dennis, I try!  I have a terrible OCD or detail problem, it gets me into trouble sometimes.  I got it running today, surprised me how good it runs!  I did rebuild the Carter AFB and followed manual on the air idle and mixture settings, will make the fine adjustments tomorrow.  Set the dwell to 30 degrees, have had that meter since the mid 70's.  Yes, I love MMO too!  Didn't smoke as bad as I thought it would.

Thanks, hope the weather isn't bad, I'll get used to driving the boat by the time I get home ha ha.  Sure was great to hear it run!

Linda

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Linda,

     This is excellent news.  I have also had my dwell meter since the 70's and always check it is spot on at 30 degrees.  Fine tune the air/fuel mixture and you'll be great!  Safe trip home and check timing again to be sure.  Good trip to Montana.

Dennis DiBari

[Linda M. Brooks]

Isn't it great to have those old tools?  I hope to work on the mixture adjustment on Thurs, and check the timing, that's when the vacuum advance should be delivered.  I shouldn't have any vacuum leaks, all hoses have been replaced and properly terminated, except the hose going to the trunk lock release.  Cadillac Tim rebuilt my Servo ass'y, and I took on the 5 port rotary valve myself.  I don't want to go through all that dash stuff again until I can't remember the pain.

I hope my original Beddix brake booster is OK, it has the valve at 6 o'clock instead of near the top.  I'll find out soon with a test drive

Thanks for the well wishes!

Linda

[Dennis P. DiBari]

Sounds like you have done it all.  When I restored my entire braking system, I had my Delco booster rebuilt and installed that as well (I was twisted like a pretzel under the dash for that)!  I got a new check valve for it and the Certified 11/32 Vacuum Hose from there to the carburetor base.  That hose is critical for proper vacuum and performance.  Don't use anything else; many do.  Hopefully your vacuum advance comes Thursday.

Dennis

[Linda M. Brooks]

Hi Dennis, I wish I had more time to be more thorough, but too close to winter and the trip I have to make.  This is my final move out of Virginia, my last bit of shop stuff, junk and the last car.  Too stubborn and sentimental to get rid of most of my stuff.  I'd love to take my time and paint every bolt, etc.  I told myself before I got here that I would just throw it together - I can't!  Anyway, I enjoy it.

I know it's not funny at the time, but I can see the pretzel contortion!  I'm going to have to lay on the floor again to look at my turn signal switch.  Glad I have Aleve!

Yes, it was a job just finding the 11/16" vacuum hose, most local shops looked at me like I had two heads, no luck with Summit either, but NAPA could order it for me so went with them.  The old hose was that size, but old.  I did buy a new check valve and grommet, but didn't install them - maybe I should?  I was going to wait until my old Bendix was rebuilt.

The vacuum advance came today!  I tested it first, and just moved the base plate it was hooked to in order to get at that screw that also holds the wire.  Getting close to a test drive!

By the way, your Cad is a gorgeous color!

Linda