alt or battery

[Kim K Kaiser]

having just done the ac system,

seems my batter y or alternator may be going out,, 

at off    battery is at about 11.8   while running, doesnt get to about but 12.5 on the meter.  11.8 doesnt seem to give it enought juice to start, so it just cliccks,, i put a battery booster on , fires right up,,

it doesnt get to the 14.9 or so while engine is on.  so, hte question is, is it batter or alternator?

battery is about 2.5 years old, if that matters.

secondly,  would the additionl of the compressor belt to the engine have any effect on the alternator ? would that addition to the spinning have any effects on any other systems.  I havent run the ac but once, since i completed it, and just enought to see if it was cold air,, its only about 45 here for a high right now.

just wondering if there would be any addiitonal drain on the alternator now that ac is hooked up.

[Kim K Kaiser]

The connector wasnt broken just the plastctic cover. The wires fit into.  .  I guess 60 yrs of heat oil spray and current dried it out.  The connections i can stilp slide on individually. Just need the right side for each one

[Jason Edge]

Sounds like the grey (sometimes black) connector from voltage regulator that plugs into back of alterntor.  There is a white wire and a dark blue wire off the voltage regulator to alternator harness. Looking down at the alternator as seen in the picture below, the white wire is in the top and the dark blue is on the bottom. (Your wires might seem yellow and black due to age and grime). I don't have just the connector but do have a nice complete voltage regulator to alternator harness in VG condition for $25 and can ship to same address as last shipment for $8 for a total of $33. This harness also has the GEN tale-tale light fuse connector as seen in your other picture. Here is the picture of the alternator:

[Jason Edge]

Kim (and everyone else) when I suggest making sure all wiring and connections are tight as I recommended earlier in my replies, that means physically disconnecting the connections, making sure rust and oxidiation are removed from metal ends, and making sure you are making solid metal to metal connections. Everyone and their grandma have suggest you take battery, alternator, voltage regulator and maybe other stuff to the auto parts store to have that 18 year old pro behind the counter test your stuff, but that will all be to naught if all wiring and connections are not tight and solid. Not trying to get too preach but start with the basic.  Do a continuity test from point to point, disconnect and clean connections, and continuity test again.  

[Kim K Kaiser]

Jason,, that picture is helpful,, i can get it right now,, however,  either its hidden or yours doesnt have that black ground wir that is screwed down opposite side of the red black connection.  I also dont seem to remmeber three wires going into that big red cover,, mine i think only had a red and black, and a smaller black wire to the other pole attacheent on the other side of the alternator.  so in short, my alt has small black to a ground pole and a red an black to the "to battery" pole.  disregard teh yellow and blue.

i did make have a wtf moment,(as is typical in my repairs) and put that big black on with the small black wire,, when i touched the black battery pole to batttery, lots of smoke and popping,, it seemed to kinda melt the rubber around the wire at the positive battery pole, so, thinking i probaby comprimiese that battery to starter positive wire and the one to the alternator positve, i got another one of those big 4 gauge battery/starter/alt wires,,

and after all that,,, stil not charging, so going to part store to have battery checked as well.. replaced voltage regulator as well, easiest thing so far..

again, thaks for the info, that picutre will get my wires strait on the plug outlet, 

[Jason Edge]

Kim, Your best friend is your shop manual. I would slow down and look at the wiring schematics. It shows the 3 wires to the BAT connection on the alternator:
- 10 Gauge Red that feeds forward to Ignition Switch and Fuse Box
- 10 Gauge Black that feeds to Positive side of Battery
- 18 Guage (small) Red that feeds to Voltage Reguator. 
Also, it is just basic precaution to ALWAYS disconnect the battery when working on electronics, especially power feeds from and to the battery, alternator, voltage regulator as you generally don't have fuses to protect your circuits as you do when you mess up under the dash. 
Take your time and go slow. The car has waited 56 years it can wait a few days or weeks to sort this out. 

[Kim K Kaiser]

yes, proably be best to take a gander at it..  however, i did have the black post off when i was working on it, it was when i started to put it back on that the smoker happend,, due to the black wire not being on the proper post on the alternator.

i was rushing a bit i guess, trying to beat colder weather coming in soon, and a gas tank on a 76 lincoln i wanted to get it...daylight savings time is a real pain,  

thanks again for all the help and guidanance,, i will get it here for long,,

[Kim K Kaiser]

Today, i chged all the coonections to fresh connectors from the alt to batt.  No chg...   i took battery to shop.  Tested ok.  He tested alt,   not pushing but 11.18 volts,  battery reads around 12.18.

So i thought maybe i fried new alt. When got thar black cable crossed.   Engine never was started. Just a contact spark when i put the black battery post back on.   Anyway,  i decided tontake out new alt, put old one back in to see what happens,    and just like on the new one, same readings on battery,  bout 12.18.  Now, given new voltage regulator, alt,  is it likely in that  wiring harness?  I dnt kno where to go nxt ..  

[Jason Edge]

At this point I would take car to a good auto electrical mechanic. Take all of your new parts and the shop manual to save them  time. Anyone familiar with an old school US auto charging & cranking system should be able to find their way thru the wiring. Since you did create a direct short where you stated
"i did make have a wtf moment,(as is typical in my repairs) and put that big black on with the small black wire,, when i touched the black battery pole to batttery, lots of smoke and popping,, it seemed to kinda melt the rubber around the wire at the positive battery pole,"
I would turn to a true professional mechanic at this point...and not the clerk behind the auto store counter unless they are also a qualified electrical mechnic ....which some are.  I know some people work at the auto parts stores and are also mechanics away from their day job, so I don't want to pigeon hole all auto store clerks.

[Jason Edge]

Once a system has been compromised in this manner with the shorting, melting and crumbling connectors, my strong suggestion is take it to an electrical mechanic and let them go thru it. Haphazardly, installing these components without a clear understanding of electrical basics could leave Kim’s car destroyed by an electrical fire.

[Kim K Kaiser]

well,  i did take it to the local old car specialist here.   he pulled out all the light screwdrivers, load readers, fancy volt meters,  all kinds of stuff, 

took cover off of the voltage reg and started putting that light stik into the connections.  

old alt was still in from my changeover test earlier today.  

well, he took the little fuse out of the generator light housing, that was broken and wouldnt keep the fuse in there apart, tied the two ends off, plugged the VR back up and voila,, old alt was charging battery..dont ask me how or why, he told me but i didnt understand,,but in teh most simplest terms i could understand, that  the regulater adjust power from alt to VR and battery telling it to charge or dont charge depending on some little regulator in the VR..

BUT,, after a lot of this and that, he determined the harness to the VR, the internal connections behind the plastic, were more than likely worn out, loose or begiing to separate from the paddles,  he couldnt keep the unit from overcharging the battery,, he would tap the connection, it would move the needle up and down,, but it was inconsistent,  he also said that trying to respring the conncection you could feel inside the connection of the wire to the connector paddle, that it was just not holding the connection and that would possible cuase the battery to boil over with out the VR shutting it off.  thats about the best way i can explain it knowing zippo about electriciey,, 

i siad i could get a replacement harness, ( i am assuming the Jason Mart pieices are from other cars)  he said unless i just wanted to keep it old school, he would recommned the internal VR alternator, eliminate all those extra connections.  told him i had already bought an alt, but he said this would probably prevent this again,,despite the extra cost.

so what to do..

[Jason Edge]

Kim, As always I am forever confused by your posts. I thought you had already bought a new voltage regulator? but is sounds like the voltage relay in your VR is bad. Based on what your mechanic said, I would go to www.RockAuto.com, order a voltage regulator for $17 and some change, and I can sell you a nice original harness and have your mechanic install them.  Before you buy anything just ask the mechanic..if he feels the new voltage regulator and good harness will fix your problem.  If he wants to go the internal regulator route that is another option..but I would let him install it! :-)

[Kim K Kaiser]

Yes, i did get a new one from oreilly.  Bout 51 bucks. Looks identical to the one one car ecxept it didnt say delco remy.   Anyway,  his explanation, best i coukd understand was the inside of the harness connector were it connects to the vr.  

Sorry for the confusion in my explanation

Do you hv the cylindrical generator fuse tube and end contacts?   

Yes, im done fooling with it. Out of my league