Back to Starter!!!!!

[Kim K Kaiser]

big sigh!!!  well, i found the bleeders weren't  quite tight enough, so the last couple of runs through town i have and no brake leaks,  brakes feel ok, may have been i was so used to bad ones, didnt know what a good push was,, ANYWAY,, 

the starter....

since i replaced the starter back in november, i had the ignition switch go out,(wiring fried)  so for most of the last month, i have used the hot wire method.  seemed to do ok, just cant do it and go anywhere.  

i did notice when i used a generic 3 prong starter from parts store, i left it hooked up over night.  not on, and not in the accessory position,  the next day, the battery was dead.  charged and it started right up

So i just figured, until I get the replacement that fit with the 4 prongs, i would just hot wire, and undo the black post at night or when not in use.

so yesterday, i got all the parts in and hooked up the starter, and bammm,, fired right up,  took my rides, tested brakes,,,etc... came home parked it for an hour or two,, went back to go for another short ride, and i got that dreaded,, hard to turn over sound.  but it would turn over on about the third slow clunk and start.,, went for my ride, came back, parked and shut down for the night,, un did the black at battery.  

this morning, after checking for brake leaks, hooked it up, and it started right up like one would expect.  went for about a 20minute ride.,, came home,, went in side for about 20 minutes, came back out, and got that slow slow turn over.. it would nt start so i turned it off,, checked the battery, had appropriate cold charge volts,  waited about 45 more minutes. went out, tried it again,  tightened down the black,, got two slow turns and then it started,,took it for a ride,,, came back, test battery with engine on, and was well up in the 14's so from what i have read, it was doing what it was supposed to,

now I dont have ANY idea what to do now,  I'm fearful of turning off somewhere as it may not start.  but, i have found that after a long time, hours or so, and the battery undone, i can go out and it will do fine.  

i have been using gunk remover, and shooting water under engine cleaning the underside and engine over the last two weeks when i did nt have a working something to do on the car.  maybe some old wiring is bad? i just dont know,,could it be a fuse?  grounds are all there and tight, i mean if the starter is a non working part once the car is started, what else could cause this sort of hot start issue,, battery???  it works good cold, but not when its been on an running and then to follow up with a start.

I know yall are getting sick of my questions, but i have no were else to turn, you tube only covers so much and so much is on modern stuff...

[Kim K Kaiser]

Ok.   I set to 10.  Idled down some,  at 0, idled up some. Tightened down at 0. To me, the only change i heard or felt, from going from 5 to 10 back to zero was idle came up.  I did nt go for drive.  Anything else i shoukd hv done at this stage of this test

[Kim K Kaiser]

Ok.  I decieded to take car for ride,  my usual 4 to 5 miles, 10 to 15 minute ride at 0 timing.  It seemed to ie a bit roughr at stop lights, other than thought, no difference in my car driving.

When i got home,  turned off car,   immmediately tried to restart with no result,  engine temp at 1/4 of gauge.    Will time amount of time before it starts

[Kim K Kaiser]

Sat for 30 minutes and started

[3ft7bqmb7dryo]

Would you elaborate on no result. You leave everyone guessing as to what the no start is. Slow to crank and starts, or are you giving up after a few short cranks, or slow to crank and no start. You have to be exact or it is all guess work here.

[Kim K Kaiser]

my non starts after a ride are the starter turns over slowly,,heavy feeling, i will turn it over 3-4 times with out a start, i dont want to grind on it and just let it go and go, it feels apparent that it will not start,,, it just feels heavy and slow, and it gets slower as the key is left in the starting position.

when i start in the mornings ro after the car has sat for a while, they are full, fast starts.. no hesitations,, just starts as it seems it should

[Jason Edge]

Set the car at 5 degrees per shop manual as it is supposed to be and leave it alone. Trying to affect engine temperature marginally by retarding timing or advancing is not going to fix your problem and I was not surprised that setting timing to 0 did not fix the problem and only made the car run worse.  If your car was running hot the temp gauge would show it anyway.  In addition setting your car timing to zero will make you lose power, gas mileage, and perform like crap.  The vacuum advance and centrifugal advance on the distributor work in tandem to add vacuum under hi vacuum and hi rpm engine situations and are calibrated to both follow a specific curve (page 12-100 in 1963 Shop Manual and discussed at length in this Help Topic article: - Ignition Advance - Engine, Vacuum and Centrifugal Distributor Advance) If you change the engine advance 5 degrees this way or that way you are throwing both advance curves off. 

Something about the engine being running temperature (about 185 to 195 degrees) just after you turn it off is causing the starter to drag.

- As noted before I would check all ignition and cranking wiring between starter and ignition switch and ignition coil, especially noting any wires around or on the exhaust manifold or any sign of melting, frayed/touching wires, etc.

- If wiring is good, and cables are good, that to me makes me think it may be a starter heat soak (resistance from heat causing starter to drag) issue.  All starters absorb some heat and usually not an issue if you have a good battery and good starter. I believe you said you had a rebuilt starter installed. You can get defective starters and might be worth swapping out and installing another new solenoid switch.

- A weak battery putting out low amperage can also make the starter drag on a hot engine due to the starter heat soak noted above. testing this is simple. Just grab a jump start box after you turn the car off and when it would normally drag and attach a fully charged jump start box. These are cheap and good to have around. I keep one in all of our cars.

Finally, since I am leaning toward the heat soak issue and/or weak battery you might want to check out this article: https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/starting-and-char...  

[Kim K Kaiser]

Ok.  Well,  i again went out b4 reading this.  I started the car at 10 5 0 -5.

I videoed the sound but for the life of me, i hear no discrnable diiference in starting at any of the 4 marks,  except for car running a bit rough at -5 and a stronger idle at 10.  One last note,  engine gauge got up to 1/4 of gauge as it does when driving, however,  unlike driving the car, parking and trying to restart with no success.  The car has no problem starting at engine temp.  Dnt know if that helps.

I feel as if i may becomi g down with a touch of flu, so i may be absent for a couple days fighting this stuff, but as soon as i get bk up, i will get the battery checked, i just did nt have the energy later today to deal with parts people.

• If anyone wa ts to hear video of different starts i will be happy to post, just whupped now

Thanks for all the guidamce

[3n49omug8n28i]

Ok if it's still doing the same thing after retarding the timing with absolutely no change you most likely have a bad starter. This is only if you have cleaned both ends of the battery cables and ground strap connections. 

[Kim K Kaiser]

I will , Tony, thanks

[Jason Edge]

"Harmonic balancer is calibrated correctly". That's a new one on me! LOL. I have posted one last long reply. Try Jump starter to bypass the battery to see if it is just too weak to overcome typical heat soak condition of the starter. Else, try another starter and solenoid. From there, you might suggest lowering the air pressure in right rear tire and cranking at a 15 degree incline!

[Kim K Kaiser]

that sounds easy enough,, will get it when i at full strength,, thanks again

[2o93f8rdftyzj]

Hey Kim, next time ya start it up, either drive it straight to Auto Electrician and get him to have a look and diagnose the problem correctly, or drive it off a cliff at high speed. LOL :-)

Either way, ya gunna feel better afterwards.

If I was you, i'd choose the first option.