And another:
Aaron when running the Edelbrock 1406 750 cfm with the larger butterflies (valve body blades), , the idea of a spacer perhaps preventing the need to bevel and port out the front primary intake ports something I had thought about.
Just a quick side note first: Tony the front "barrels" are the primaries that have the smaller ports, and the rear "barrels" are the secondaries that opens when the front primaries are almost fully open. The front smaller ports on the intakes are what I call the primary ports and the rear larger ones are the secondary ports. I use this to match the name of the Carb nomenclature.
Aaron, this is the problem if you don't at least bevel when using the 750 with larger butterflies (even if the raised spacer prevents from hitting): if you don't at least bevel it out you will be drawing the air/fuel down and it will hit a hard ridge due to the narrow front intake primaries. You need to at least bevel it out. You can see the results of just beveling it in my Carb Intake project thread (Click Here to go to it) in the Help Pages, but when I rebuilt the engine last year I had the machine shop to port the front intake primaries out more and to polish both ports to hopefully increase the air/fuel delivery from the square bore Edelbrock to the Cadiillac Intake which is sort of a cross between a square bore and spread bore since the rear secondaries are larger than the front primaries but not Huge like on the Quadrajets.
Advantages of the Edelbrock 1411 750cfm vs Original Carbs:
#1 with a bullet: POWER! I had run a couple of rebuilt Carter AFB's on my 64 CDV early on, and they were ok with mediocre performance (I come from a hot rodding background), but was never satisfied not to mention the choke was tough to set, and of course the choke tube issues. I posted several videos driving the car after Edelbrock Carb install, but before the engine rebuild, and you could punch it at 50 and be at 80 in like not time. The 750 just made a world of difference in terms of sheer fuel delivery and power when I needed it.
Other advantages were the elimination of the manual choke and problematic choke tube, better fuel efficiency over the original carbs (as long as I laid off the gas pedal), and other than the beveling of the intake, a bolt and go setup where the throttle linkage was the same, as was the fuel line (Carter AFB style), and with the Edelbrock design very similar to the Carter AFB with air breather adaptor rings and 3/8" spacer/insulator it looks stock until I take the air breather off.
Disadvantages of Edelbrock vs Original: not many. You will need to get creative to connect the Turbo Hydramatic kickdown switch (not sure about TV Rod) and the idle speed up control for AC equipped cars. You also need to use adaptor rings to use the stock air filter housing, and address the heat through the intake by blocking passages. I've yet to install the kick down switch, or idle up speed control, but with the "kick in the pants" power I have never ever felt under power when I needed a "passing gear", and as you all know the A/C is a not-yet-started project for me so these two items have not matter. The sheer power boost, and the fact I am running a new (well it was new then) carb instead of haggling with trying to rebuild a carb with 50 year old corroded and fatigued parts just makes it a better option for me.
- Advantages of Edelbrock 1411 750 cfm over the 1406 600 cfm --> Power
- Advantages of Edelbrock 1406 600 cfm over the 1411 750 cfm -> Fuel Efficiency and no need to bore out/port front intake primaries (but it still might give you some performance gains since Edelbrock is a square bore carb.
Below you will see the final result of the intake during recent rebuild:
SUMMARY INFO ADDED AUGUST 18, 2013:
When I first did my intake and carb project, I only blocked the 2 internal choke tube end openings and the 2 top gutter openings. I did not initially block the center cylinder head to intake exhaust channel.
I blocked the 4 openings to the center exhaust channel since:
1) the Edelbrock 1406/1411 has the electric choke and did not need the choke tube to feed the hot air to a mechanical choke
2) the center choke tube often rots & cracks allowing fire hot gases out the choke tube ends which can be dangerous (so both ends of the choke tube were blocked)
3) The new Edelbrock Design did not need the blast of exhaust gas directly underneath the carb via the gutter (so those two gutter holes were blocked)
NOTE: When originally set up, I was also running dual exhaust and did not have the heat riser, which on cold start-up shuts off the exhaust flow out on the left driver side exhaust manifold forcing hot gases across the intake channel for faster engine fuel/air heat-up. Even so, you still get unforced bypass exhaust gases flowing across that channel as I noticed my paint continuing to burn off in this area. I measured the temps with a heat gun and was still getting a 300+ degree reading across the center port . I have posted video showing the difference in temps on the intake with heat riser removed but with the center cylinder head to intake channel still open. Just from the bypass gases the center is about 305 degrees vs the 195 degrees on the ends of the intake. Here is a link to the video: https://6364cadillac.ning.com/video/1964-cadillac-intake-heat-temps
May 2012 Upgrades:- Intake was ported out as seen in last picture above to make the front m primaries better match the venturi of the Edelbrock 750 cfm
- Original Exhaust was installed, however, the butterfly was removed from heat riser and center exhaust port between the cylinder head and intake manifold was blocked using heavy guage galvanized roofing steel because I wanted to further reduce the heat on the center exhaust channel across intake as seen in previous video link. To be able to do that and run stock exhaust I had the butterfly removed from my heat riser on the stock single pipe exhaust I am now running.
UPDATE Sept 2023: if you want something more professional than my fabricated plates, Olson Gaskets sells an intake gasket with the block-off plate built in. Click Here to go to their website. GGasket sets are about $50 the last time I checked.
NOTE!: If you are running the stock set-up with the heat riser intact and functioning you cannot block the cylinder head to intake center exhaust port as seen above. If you do, your left exhaust will be blocked and engine will run like crap on startup until heat riser opens.
SUMMARY: If you are running a 1406 or 1411 you need to block the ends of the heat choke tube since you are not using it and leaving it open even if you have a solid internal tube, could eventually lead to problems if it ever cracks or corrodes open exposing the both ends to fire hot gases. You also want to close the top gutter holes to prevent those same hot gases from hitting the carb insulator. IF, and a big IF, you do not plan to use the heat riser you can block the center cylinder head to intake channel further reducing the temps on center of intake beneath carb.
Update 11/26/16 regarding carb to original Air Cleaner Adaptor:
Since the top of the Edelbrock is 5 1/8” wide and the original air cleaner housing is about 4 3/16” to fit the Rochester 4GC or Carter AFB you will need some sort of adaptor to use the original air cleaner.
My First Solution - The Universal kit I first used was OK, but the rings were flimsy and the cleaner just sat loosely in the funnel formed by the adaptor rings. Thus, you did not have a good seal and I am sure some outside air was probably sucked in. It gave me a total effective raised height of 7/8” above the carb. (Details are on this link: https://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/edelbrock-carb-to-air-... )
Second/Better Solution: The adaptor Russ Austin is selling is a much better adaptor. Very solid. It raises the air cleaner 1 3/16”... which just clears the hood if using a 3/8” intake to carb spacer. If you go any higher the air cleaner will probably hit to hood.
Rejetting:
Once you get your carb set up you then my want to adjust jetting to fine tune your particular setting.
On my 1964 429 with the 1411, I ended up going with the .073 x .042 for 4% richer mixture on both cruise and power mode.
Calibration Kits
You can get calibration kits from Edelbrock that has an assortment of metering rods, jets, and step-up springs.
The kit tailored for the Edelbrock 1406 600cfm carb is the 1487 kit.
The kit tailored for the Edelbrock 1411 750cfm carb is the 1489 kit.
Below is a picture of the 1489 kit which I used:
Comment
My original Edelbrock and engine rebuild with slight duration mods were long after my original installation of Edelbrock and Pertronix, not that either would be a "fix" for a misfire or skip at idle. You have basic timing and/or fuel delivery issues pure and simple.
If new parts didn't solve the problem, and setting idle per Edelbrock Instructions, and you had the miss before I would look at items that have not been addressed such as the distributor. I'm assuming the distributor vacuum advance is correct as it will add up to 10.75 degrees at advance at 20" of mercury.
I tapped into the pink 12volt + switched wire that feeds the kickdown switch mounted to side of carb on 1964 Turbo Hydramatic equipped cars.
If you don't have the TH tranny you can still access the pink wire behind the firewall or run a feed all the way to the fuse box. If you don't have the TH kick down switch you and usually remove the grommet and retaining brackets at firewall where the resistor wire and cranking harness feeds through and pull the resister wire forward enough to the pink wire without having to get under or inside the dash. See picture below of cranking harness.
Just to add, your engine needs much more than 5 degrees total advance under acceleration, wide open throttle, high engine rpm, rich fuel conditions, etc and this is where the distributor vacuum advance and distributor centrifugal advance system kick in and add significant advance up to 20 or more degrees total advance.
Be sure and check out this article with some specs: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/vacuumadvance
You will note that for 1964:
Timing advance 5 Degrees BTDC
For 1964 it indicates:
Vacuum Advance: Start 5 - 7", Full 20", Max Vacuum Advance 10.85 degrees.
Centrifugal Advance: Start 0 to 1 degree advance at 400 rpm, Max 8 to 10 degrees at 2000rpm
Timing advance 5 Degrees BTDC
Theoretically you could get up to 10.85 + 10 + 5 = 25.85 degrees total ignition advance if under specific conditions.
The RIGHT Passenger Side Port with the vacuum port above the throttle plate is for Emissions Controlled Cars! DO NOT USE IT!
Your Vacuum Advance should be connected to the LEFT Driver Side Manifold Vacuum Port. You will have limited vacuum at idle then full vacuum as you start to open the throttle plates. THIS IS THE VACUUM CURVE YOUR DISTRIBUTOR IS DESIGNED FOR AND THE PORT YOU WILL WANT TO USE. (SEE PICTURE BELOW FOR REFERENCE).
Set your timing to 5 Degrees BTDC with vacuum advance hose disconnected and plugged per Shop Manual. Then reconnect after engine timing is set. As you open the throttle plates you will get full vacuum. If everything including your distributor vacuum advance and distributor centrifugal advance, your car will run perfect at 5 degrees advance and with the vacuum advance connected to the correct Left Side manifold port.
Tony,
This greatly affects your distributor vacuum advance timing and another reason you might feel the need to advance your timing more than factory specs. You already get some delay of getting advance as open the carb butterflies but will get much further delay in vac advance if running off the port side. Again, too much detail to cover in a reply and encourage everyone to joint Cadillac LaSalle Club and check out Jan & Feb self starter regarding the detailed info on advance which covers total advance - engine advance + vacuum advance + centrifugal advance. At the $35 online annual rate that great bit of info in itself would have been worth membership, not to mention all the other many perks in addition to being able to join our Chapter.
I have the vacuum fitting with the main male nipple on rear for brake booster and female threaded fitting on side for turbo hydramatic vacuum modulator line for $5 + s/h. It is the fitting seen on the back of my 1411 in picture. Send email to jasonedge@nc.rr.com if you wan tto get one.
By the way here is the link to the 1411 jet kit I bought. I ended up going with the .073 x .042 for 4% richer mixture on both cruise and power mode.: http://store.edelbrock.com/1489calibrationkitfor1411performercarbs....
Which carb did you use? 1406 or 1411. I rejetted my 1411 but it ran fine out of the box but tweaked it a bit later on by increasing metering rods to 4% richer for both cruise mode and power mode. Your Edelbrock Owners manual will have tons of info on making adjustments complete with charts for % change and part #'s. You can get metering rod kits with multiple size rods to experiment with. As far as plug wires I had recently replied in this link: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/spark-plug-wires
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I have installed the same Edelbrock carb and have done everything the same as Jason’s carb and intake project. In the spring and summer months the car starts, runs and idles great! In the fall and winter months on a cold start, the car starts awful and wants to die until it warms up. I have to keep my foot on the throttle until it warms up or it will idle just terrible and try to die. Once it’s warm, it runs fantastic! Whats going on here? I was thinking of removing the…
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While checking my Carter carb with engine running, I took the air cleaner off and there was a very loud hissing sound of air. I placed a piece of paper over the carb and it didn’t move up or down, is this normal?
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