Just curious.. what would be the advantage,,, 

i was watching car show to day, and they put a fuel injection on a 69 rivera,, and were extolling the virtues.. this is a down the road thought i am putting in my suggestion box.. 

just want ing to see options for down the road and if they are worth the time and money

Views: 407

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I can't say it's really worth the expense to install a fuel injection system. It's more of a personal preference to install one. If you follow Jason's thread on his carb install it would be much simpler to do with excellent results.
I wanted to try it and I am a big fan of newer technology. Easier starts and probably slightly better fuel mileage as its monitored all the time by the computer to have the proper air fuel mixture.
This is NOT a shade tree mechanics job to install this setup. I'm not an average guy when it comes mechanical stuff. I've been playing with this stuff for years and I can figure mechanical things out quickly without the use of manuals and Internet. If I need to I can access those things and find what I want quickly. If you do get one I highly recommend a professional install by a shop that has done this before. You don't want them learning on your car. This will more than double the cost unfortunately so a carburetor starts to look a lot better.

Tony there are three basic fuel injection types. One as you stated is direct injection into the combustion chamber, port injection where it's injected into the intake manifold just befor the intake valve and throttle body like the Fitech set up. There are four fuel injectors inside that throttle body, throttle position sensors, air flow sensors, stepper motors, computer, temperature sensors and vacuum sensors to name a few of them. It is fuel injection that runs at 58 psi with a pretty cover in it to hide all that equipment.

my interest would be from a maintenance point of view.,  keep in mind, I'm a pure novice, but there seems to be quite a few discussions about carbs, setting, rebuilding, adjusting etc.   I want to drive my car, not spend weekends constant tinkering,  I want to be able to get to point that i can fix most stuff so that i can maintain an older vehicle and i have a lot to learn, but if it takes you 3 or 4 hours or you pay someone to put in, how much non tinkering time would you spend on a FI vs a carburetor on maintenance,  

i see these heaps out here in montana, guys riding around in 70s trucks all rotted out, make more noise, but they are still functioning ranch trucks,  i dont see them in a garage on weekends, nor do i know what thy have under hoods. so i know old cars can hold up,  so anything that would cut down tinkering and potentially have better, reliable performance, thats where i want to go.. if it makes sense,, guess the jury is still out,, 

Kim

I agree!! I wanted to put fuel injection on my car but it was a bit costly and not sure of which one will work correctly. So I went the Jason way by putting on a Elder 1411 Carb on my car and do all the little things to the manifold. The car runs better but I would like to add the fuel injection carb to my car to eliminate all the tinkering. I'm waiting for someone to say "This works great" on a fuel injection system. We only live once. 

Kim once a carburetor is set up its good for years. Remember the ones on our cars are over 50 years old. That are bound to have problems just like the rest of the car. Most of those problems are from people who don't know what they are doing mucking around with it.
Fuel injection does have many advantages over a carburetor that also have things that aren't as good such as simplicity.
I'm building a new car basically that's why I went with the fuel injection. Down the road I may be installing an alarm with remote start and door locks and maybe even a trunk popper. Fuel injection will work great with this. It all depends where you want to go with your car.

That would be me!!!!! " people who don't know what they are doing mucking around with it." so that is why i am searching ..  I recognize these old units have been reliable over the years, but i was reading a post on the main caddy forum were i posted this,  and the response was the fear of my car repair life

this is a long quote, from the caddy form, but it sort of make my point and my fear., given my limited knowledge, my car would sit for a year,  and then, be off to a shop to re sett, I can read books about carburetor theory but reading an doing are two different things..so anything, that is a potential improvement, is a plus, in my mind,, if it works.

""I think I am going on almost 10 years between my 78 CDV and 73 Eldo.   Started out with a analog Holley Projection system on the 78 which was a daily driver and worked pretty well.  Moved it to the 73 which didn't work well.  The projection I think was optimized for a 350 so going to a 500 I think was kinda a stretch.  I ended up keeping the throttle body but running it with a Megasquirt ECU.    Megasquirt is a open source DIY ECU system.   It appears to have fallen off a little but back when I did it it was a fairly large fairly active community.   You often assembled the circuit boards yourself then had to configure the system yourself running software that other users wrote.  It was quite a process that forced you to learn a fair amount about EFI and tuning. 

About the time I got it running pretty well work went from a fairly normal average out to 40 per week to more of a 70 thing so I barely had time to drive the car over several years plus had a major setback on my rebuilt engine that cost me time and money.   More recently I started to have some issues that I blamed on the system so I started to mess with the program.    After really screwing things up I realized my fuel pressure was high due to a restricted return line.  Got the line fixed but was never able to get the program quite right again and I didn't have a backup of the original.   Also had a hesitation backfire start up so I just kinda gave up.

Was reading about the new at the time $1000 self contained auto tuning systems and decided to just make the time and budget to do it.   Did it and it went fairly well but I still had the backfire which turned out to be a distributor issue so once again nothing wrong with my original system.     Replaced the distributor and went to timing control and things were looking up for a while but now I have a minor hesitation issue that I have some theories on but just have not had any time to look into.  

Well I have a Cad 500 in my '64 but I believe the same would hold true for you 429 and 390 folks.  I installed the FAST EZ EFI system on my car a few years back BECAUSE I drive it very frequently and we have 10% ethanol in our state.  With the big Cad, the carb was ok but I would get heat soak if I drove from my office into town on a hot, humid day and had some difficulty starting.  The EFI also alleviated the choke and dropped the top of the carb to hood clearance enough for me to use a better air filter. Yeah, the electric fuel pump helped  with carb issues but the addition of the "bolt on" system did give me a few MPG more.  When you're dealing with 500 cid though, a "few more" equates to 9 mpg jumping to 11-12 mpg.  I figured the thousand dollar system would pay for itself in about 50 years. 

Bottom line- if you want a little more exotic car and easy to install bolt on system, fuel injection may be your ticket.  These systems are very reliable, can be diagnosed with an OBD II unit and have a feature that lets you creep home if something fails. Carbs are fine for 90% of the applications out there and I can honestly say I bought a second system for a '61 Biscayne that I have yet to install because there really isn't the significant gains promised by the manufacturer. That's my 2 cents worth.

Happy motoring.

I don't want exotic, , mileage is not the factor, but, the problems you state are with your oriiginal system. The vapor thing, And say for whatever reason, a more consistant. f to a ratio can reduce wear, lower temp, or any of the things that give older engines fits over time, wouldnt that be a reason. I dnt hv any clue if they do, but it would seem consistency in any application woild be good for mechanical items, i wantbto drive the car, a lot, and reduce underhood time to driving ratio as much as possible. Any car can break down, i kno that, lord knows my diesel has left me stranded, on occasions. So called advanced in fuels has, from what i read, created some issues on cars not enginneered for such, so adaptations necesarilty hv to be made, you have all done small things to rectify that, ie, the fuel pump on vspor look prone vehicles. So why not look at another sollution, or option to keep our cars running more, they are just options, after all.

I hear ya, The bolt on kits from 3 or 4 manufacturers are really well designed and retro-fit to dang near any square bore or spread bore intake. I saw a guy with a '57 CDV with Edelbrock EFI installed on his 365 but he was driving a $50,000 car. I love my '64 coupe but on a good day, I would be lucky to get a quarter of that so I suppose it depends upon whether you want to invest in a good quality rebuilt carb $250 or jump to EFI for $850-1400? Luckily in my case, I use Hagerty insurance and there was enough "wiggle room" in the  agreed insured value of the car to justify the expense. A lot of classic car insurance companies frown on owners that modify anything.   If i was driving a four or five thousand dollar car I don't think I would entertain the thought. 

I purchased one but found out you need to get $300.00 to $400.00 external fuel pump so I tried Jasons carb. instruction.

even if it relieved your vapor lock issues ?  not worrying about that again by virtue of a pump,,,,that is the point i am trying to make,,,,if you can eliminate a reliability issue,,, why not, if it doesnt break the bank,, it seems the question of type of gas to run these old cars come up regularly, and people want to know what is best to get best performance, less wear and tear, thus less under hood time to remedy the issues of new gas,, so best options are pointed out.   same for this,, while more expensive the potential outcome is the same. better performance and reliability,   i am no fool and dont want to burn 750 to 1500 cash for an product promo,  but a car not running reliably is worth it,, i was just looking for opinions ,, good and bad,, the stock issue is not really a issue for me, i want it to look as it did, inside and out,  i dont want to lower it, bag it, or have it hop down the street on 3 wheels. , i just want to count on it running with as little worry factor as possible

I suppose I should have mentioned that I completely rebuilt the 500 engine to stand up to today's junk gas BEFORE I installed the EFI. It was just a natural extension of putting a $4k engine/trans rebuild in a car that cost me $3k two years prior.  Remember, you could buy 95-100 octane leaded gas when our cars were new.  Owners did not worry about ethanol eating through rubber lines or evaporating in carb bowls after shut off OR the dreaded vapor lock (well maybe they did worry about that one).  We have made other mods over the years such as radial tires, better headlights and stereos with USB ports. EFI is a definite preemptive strike towards what may be coming in the way of increased ethanol percentage and lower quality fuel. You will hear from all sides on this issue.  Bottom line- it's your decision to make and it sounds like you're doing the smart thing by asking advice from those who have had to make a similar choice.  

Cheers

Thanks for the input. Lots to poonder

RSS

Photos

  • Add Photos
  • View All

Forum

Modern radio antenna …

Started by Mack in 1963/64 Cadillac Specific Discussion yesterday. 0 Replies

Just replaced radios for the modern radios with Bluetooth and all the dance things and wanted to share how I went around the antenna knob… I’ve installed a regular two way GM window switch in the…Continue

BOOT

Started by John Inglesby in 1963/64 Cadillac Specific Discussion. Last reply by Marty Smith yesterday. 1 Reply

I recently purchased a new boot for my 64 convertible and was wondering how difficult it s to install. I'm not very mechanical. It looks like the chrome piece behind and at top of seats needs to be…Continue

63 Exhaust Hanger Mystery

Started by Mike Travers in 1963/64 Cadillac Specific Discussion. Last reply by Cees de Bunje on Monday. 8 Replies

I'm in the process of installing a stainless steel single exhaust from Classic Exhaust on my '63 Coupe de Ville. I'm running into a mystery regarding my middle exhaust bracket. I have the bracket…Continue

TH400 Dipstick Tube Seal

Started by Logan Robb in 1963/64 Cadillac Specific Discussion. Last reply by Logan Robb on Monday. 9 Replies

In my “rebuild” of the transmission, I ordered a dipstick tube seal. However, I’m not sure if the right one came or how to best install the seal. I am wondering if anyone has replaced this seal OR…Continue

Blog Posts

Loud air moving sound within carb with cleaner removed

Posted by Dave Fehrle on March 23, 2024 at 3:23pm 8 Comments

While checking my Carter carb with engine running, I took the air cleaner off and there was a very loud hissing sound of air. I placed a piece of paper over the carb and it didn’t move up or down, is this normal?

Vintage Air AC

Posted by Chase on March 21, 2024 at 5:55am 0 Comments

Hey everyone, has anybody done a Vintage Air AC/Heat setup in their car? I want to bypass the old vacuum setup and go with a Vintage Air Gen 2 model. Before I get started, does anyone have any experience with this? (Which model to go with, do’s and dont’s, etc.) It looks pretty involved. Any and all info/pics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

accumulator dryer

Posted by CHRIS CARLSON on December 6, 2023 at 10:54am 0 Comments

Who rebuilds original AC  accumulator dryers for 1964 Cadillac? I have been on Classic auto air in Tampa FL wait list for over a year ,  There is one on Old air products web site that looks very similar to the original # 21-4214A but states it fits 1962 Gm cars, The one recommended for a 1964 Cadillac is half the length 21-4215A    What  is everyone using ? I would prefer to be as original as possible. Thanks

'63 Eldorado trumpet horn + 2 standard horns restoration

Posted by Les Eastling on November 15, 2023 at 10:34am 1 Comment

My son, unbeknownst to me, had all three of the horns on our 1963 Eldorado completely restored. We had recently added the Eldorado trumpet horn to the two standard horns and the sound was not very good... we had heard good ones so we knew something was not right... but there was not much we could do to get better sound from the 3 horns. 

There is a restoration service called The Horn Works who my son…

Continue

Videos

  • Add Videos
  • View All

© 2024   Created by Jason Edge.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service